Bob Grant talk radio show--WMCA, New York City, 2/22/2000

Transcribed by Xenubat (Sue M.)

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BOB GRANT: Joe from Newark, welcome to the program.

JOE FROM NEWARK: Um, also, I'd just like to add one other thing on a different matter. I'd like to tell people to boycott this new movie that's coming out with John Travolta that comes from L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology. This is one of the most dangerous organizations on the face of the earth that has full protection of the Clinton administration; and if people want to inform themselves about what a dangerous thing this is, they can go to www.xenu.net and, um, learn the truth about this horrible satanic cult. That L. Ron Hubbard was a good friend of Aleister Crowley who is universally known as one of the most horrible men on the face of the earth, believed himself to be the Beast. And L. Ron Hubbard, Jr., L. Ron Hubbard's son, said that his father thought he inherited the cloak of the Beast when Aleister Crowley passed away. Hubbard's other son Quentin Hubbard committed suicide, and two of his wives brought him up on torture charges. And they say in the Bible, "A tree bears fruit"--well, what kind of fruit is that? For John Travolta and Tom Cruise and all these celebrities to be pandering to, it's disgusting and I hope people wake up to it. Thanks for letting me express my opinion.

BOB GRANT: Yeah, well, you see, uh, you're paying the price of being informed. Sometimes you're better off--what is that old saying, "Ignorance is bliss". Uh, you obviously know about Scientology and therefore you caution your fellow Americans against it. Uh, I recall when I broadcast in Los Angeles, um, not too far--not too far from where they had their headquarters; and I did meet, um, people who, um, at one time had been seduced by Scientology. And, uh, the only thing they told me was that it had made a difference in their life. You know the difference it made? They had less money! Because they, it certainly--one of the big things they did to these people that I knew was drain them of their money. Did you know about that?

JOE FROM NEWARK: Of course, it's a scam. Not only that, but they get away with murder. People should investigate the case of Lisa McPherson. She was a Scientologist for 17 years, and in 1995 she had a breakdown. But she embarrassed the church when she got out of her car in Clearwater, Florida, had a car accident, took all her clothes off and walked naked down the street. They went and got her out of the institution the police brought her to, they locked her into a room for 17 days where she died. She died of dehydration and she had thousands of bug bites, scrapes, burns and bruises all over her body. Autopsy pictures are on the Internet. And the town of Clearwater has brought the church up on murder charges but they've asked--the church has asked the Justice Depar--Department to intervene on their behalf. And the Clinton administration has a very strange connection with this organization; I don't understand it, but nobody's gonna pay for this murder. And it is a murder, and there's been about 50 to 60 other murders like this within the church. Um, second degree murder was, uh, upheld in France. Uh, a branch of Scientology was--the director--

BOB GRANT: Has anybody been charged with murder, though?

JOE FROM NEWARK: Yes, second degree murder in France, but not in the United States--

BOB GRANT: Ahh--

JOE FROM NEWARK: --was upheld, there was--

BOB GRANT: --I see, in France. Uh, as long as you are talking about Europe, what about a couple of years ago when the German government wisely rejected--

JOE FROM NEWARK: Yes--

BOB GRANT: --the request of Scientology to be accepted as a religion.

JOE FROM NEWARK: Yeah, well, this should scare your, your audience. Did you know that the State Department, the Clinton administration State Department in 1996 and '97, under Samuel--under Berger, has issued a warning to the United Nations and it had written up Germany as being a country guilty of religious persecution, and they use worse language than anything directed at China. Okay? People need to understand that this government is protecting Scientology for reasons we cannot understand.

BOB GRANT: And the connection with John Travolta, remember? He was at the White House and shortly after that, uh, Clinton gave, uh, protection to the Scientologists--

JOE FROM NEWARK: That's true, but it's believed in the community of people on alt.religion.scientology on the Internet that it goes deeper than that and that was a ruse and that the real connections run much deeper. In 1993, after--you have to understand that Scientology was con--convicted of felony espionage in 1979 against the United States government's Department of Justice--

BOB GRANT: Now, what about yourself, now? Uh, were you a member of Scientology?

JOE FROM NEWARK: No, I wasn't, but I almost, almost got involved with it when I read Dianetics, and I was fooled by it for about a week. And, uh, I started to think about it a little more and I was--I had called up a center, and they tried so hard to get me down there, um, to meet with them and to bring my checkbook with me that I became--

BOB GRANT: Ahh! Bring your checkbook!--

JOE FROM NEWARK: --I became very suspicious and I found this web site, www.xenu.net, and to my horror, I couldn't believe what I almost got involved with. But the last thing I wanna say about this is, here's a--here's an organization that gets convicted of felony espionage. It's 11 top--11 top officials in '79 are convicted of this felony against the United States government. Fourteen years later, after years of trying to gain tax-exempt status, the IRS was asked to Scientology for a billion-dollar tax bill. And in '93, the Clinton administration ordered the IRS to reverse their decision, granted a billion-dollar tax break to Scientology and gave them tax-exempt status with more favor than any religion in the world and you're supposed to have a bona fide religion for this.

BOB GRANT: Yeah.

JOE FROM NEWARK: If this is a bona fide religion, you know, so is standing on your head in Times Square and banging it against a manhole!

BOB GRANT: Well, Joe, you know, um, there was--there were a group of psychologists many years ago, psychiatrists, who said that, uh, if people weren't very neurotic, they would never become actors. Well, when you think of somebody like Tom Cruise and John Travolta, they're obviously not capable of playing with a full deck. And it's people like this that get--give Scientology a lot of its clout. Thank you very much, Joe.

[snip part of program]

BOB GRANT: Uh, if you folks were listening just a couple of minutes ago you heard a caller from Newark, New Jersey, Joe by name, telling us about, um, the, uh, sinister operations of Scientology, warning us not to, uh, go see this, uh, new John Travolta movie because it's propaganda for Scientology, I believe he said. And he twice gave a web site address on the Internet. And we have the gentleman that Joe spoke of who, uh, operates this, um, Internet site. His name is Andreas Heldal-Lund and, um, you are in Norway, I believe. Is that right, sir?

ANDREAS HELDAL-LUND: That's correct. Hello, America.

BOB GRANT: All right, you can hear me okay?

ANDREAS HELDAL-LUND: Yes, loud and clear.

BOB GRANT: Why did you start this web site to expose Scientology?

ANDREAS HELDAL-LUND: Because I met so many victims of Scientology that I only come, came to this point where I either had to do something or turn my back to it; and I couldn't turn my back to it, so I had to expose them.

BOB GRANT: So you, um--do you, um, purport to have factual information, what you're saying here on your web site about Scientology, uh, you can verify that it's true?

ANDREAS HELDAL-LUND: Yes, I can verify anything and I'll--I've challenged Scientology several times during three years to, to sue me if anything I say is, is wrong. And they've not dared to sue me yet. And on my site I have all of the Scientology secrets where people pay hundreds of thousands to get this--these are free on my site. So they are afraid that if they--if they sue me, that will create so much, um, so much hubbub in the media and so on; so they try to ignore me. But they're, they're--that's, that's, that's not why it's such a cult that fighting that--the polarize, it's shifting from, from a very powerful cult which had money and celebrities enough to, to scare people off. But over the Internet, people like me, far, far away up in Norway can actually make a difference and actually go out and, and, um, and stand up to them, just normal people. And that's a big change. So the Internet's meant a lot in the fight against totalitarian cults and so on.

BOB GRANT: Any of you people listening to us, if you want to see the web site, it's www, z--I mean x-e-n-u, x-e-n-u, dot, com. What does x-e-n-u stand for?

ANDREAS HELDAL-LUND: Xenu is the secret galactic overlord which came to Earth--this is all according to L. Ron Hubbard, the creator of, of Scientology--he came to Earth approximately 70 million years ago with, um, a lot of slaves which he killed around some volcanoes and that. And the dead spirits, the spirits of these dead aliens are now flying around and attaching to people. And one of the things Scientology offers is a technology they claim that will exorcise these alien spirits off your body. They can--they can cause bodily harm, like if you had a bad elbow it could be because one of these aliens have stuck to your elbow. And in Scientology they can exorcise them for you, if you pay the right price.

BOB GRANT: One final question--do you get many hits?

ANDREAS HELDAL-LUND: Um, pretty much I have, during 1999 I have four and a half million connect to the site.

BOB GRANT: And, um, you're not afraid that the Scientologists will get you? Because I understand they can play rough.

ANDREAS HELDAL-LUND: Of course, um, I mean, nobody--nobody wants to have trouble and least of all me. I don't want to, anybody to hurt me or, uh, spread slander about me. But, um, I mean, everybody comes to a point in life where you meet something that you might not want to do but you feel it's right. And this is one thing I feel is is right to do. And, um, somebody has to stand up alongside also Scientology and say give the other version. I, I'm--I tell people to go to both side, sides. Don't listen to me, don't trust me any more than anybody else. But you need to get both sides, and then you can make up your own mind; that's the point. And until a few years ago, nobody dared to stand up alongside Scientology because they were so brutal--

BOB GRANT: Yes--

ANDREAS HELDAL-LUND: --and they sued you for anything. And so that--I mean, that's all we want to do. People can choose for themselves, think for themself of free access to, to the information, basically.

BOB GRANT: Well, I appreciate talking to you and thank you very much.

ANDREAS HELDAL-LUND: Likewise, thank you for calling.

BOB GRANT: Yes, that's Andreas Heldal-Lund, uh, speaking to us from Norway where he lives. And you heard him say that, yes, he doesn't take lightly the threats he might receive. And his web site, if you want to check it out, www.x-e-n-u.com. Andreas Heldal-Lund.

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