"We are happy for German vigilance"
German_Scn_News <german_scn_news@hotmail.com>
Tue, 18 Apr 2000 16:31:21 -0400

[Keep in mind this is an interpreted translation, which means quote marks do not indicate the exact words used.]

"We are happy for German vigilance"

Gerry Armstrong's interview with TAZ staff
Bernhard Poetter and Bernd Pickert

Berlin, Germany
November 7, 1997
taz

Former Scientology member Gerry Armstrong has had a series of press interviews in Berlin and Hamburg. We will document the text of an interview which he gave to staff editors of the TAZ daily newspaper," Bernhard Poetter and Bernd Pickert. We thank the editorial staff at the daily newspaper, as well as Mr. Bernhard Poetter and Mr. Bernd Pickert for permission to reprint their article, which first appeared in the "tageszeitung" of November 7, 1997. - the editors

Mr. Armstrong, did Scientology leave you alone after you left the organization?

Of course not. The organization knew that I presented a threat because of what I knew. They declared me to be a "Suppressive Person" [how Scientology defines its critics - ed.] Such a person is subject to what Scientology calls its "Fair Game" doctrine: he may and should be slandered, threatened, deceived and destroyed.

What did they do with you?

They set private detectives on me and my wife practically 24 hours a day. For a period of one month, in August 1982, these private detectives came onto our property and looked through our windows, threatened us, and drove at me on the street, slamming on their brakes at the last minute, all the things meant to make us nervous.

And with what result?

Scientology finally gave me a contract to sign. It forbade me from talking about my experiences with Scientology. If I were to do that, then I could be prosecuted and would have to pay a $50,000 fine. This interview with you costs $50,000!

Then why did you sign it?

My attorney was also undergoing operations like mine. He had the feeling that they were going to murder him, they had threatened his family, they brought him to court fifteen times. He was the one who finally insisted that the thing be put to an end - and so he goaded me into signing. This contract stated that I would not be permitted to say anything more and, in return, Scientology would cease its "Fair Game" operations on me. The war was supposed to be over.

And was it over? No, actually Scientology continued attacking me and the others who signed in the media. They published their own version of my experiences - which was simply lies.

But didn't the contract have any kind of regulating force?

No western country would regard such a contract as legal. But Scientology is so rich that it can afford the most expensive attorneys to use the courts against you. I regard that as corruption. Therefore I speak out here in Germany, too.

Germany, however, is under particular pressure from the USA. There is currently more freedom in Germany than in the United States. Many in the USA who are in my situation are happy about the vigilance which Germany has for this organization.

Is Scientology really so big and dangerous?

Scientology claims it has ten million members. I don't believe that; there are maybe 150,000 worldwide. These 150,000, however, are totally devoted to the organization. They do absolutely everything and follow every order. They are in all levels of society. Scientology is constructed like an intelligence agency: it collects information on people, organizations and finances.

But what does Scientology want with that? World domination?

They would love that. Within the organization they always talk about a "cleared land" or about a "Scientology land." A land that is ruled by Scientology

Is there a genuine strategy for that or is it just a figure of speech?

Almost every activity in Scientology is described in detail in elaborate programs. In them operations to be developed are described step by step - whether it concerns "black propaganda" or operations against persons.

And what is the goal of all this activity?

The end goal is control of everything in sight. World domination. Of course they are far away from that, even from controlling a single country. But in order to carry out something in a new country, you don't necessarily have to have absolute control. As you can see, they have already made some progress in the USA.

Do you mean to claim that Scientology controls the United States?

If one manages to set a precedent in court in the USA, then one controls a portion of the justice system. Scientology has much money, and it uses this money to bring about court decisions in its favor. So it sets precedential cases - and intimidates others: victims, attorneys and judges. Still Scientology, of course, is far away from controlling the Supreme Court of the United States.

Do you think it is right that Scientology be under surveillance with intelligence methods like it is by Constitutional Security in Germany?

If you accept that there no justification for the existence of of a private intelligence agency, that an intelligence agency should collect information for the purpose of contributing to the security of a country - then I would say yes. Scientology is a threat to the democratic constitution of every country.

But what exactly is this threat? Isn't that infinitely exaggerated?

It is not a threat which one has to defend himself against with armed force. But Scientology has this totalitarian end goal, it is here in Germany and is committing human rights violations - that is justification for keeping an eye on it. I do not demand the annihilation of Scientology or of Scientologists, either. But one has to know certain things and make sure the word gets around. I don't know of any operations by the German government which would exceed the limits.

In Bavaria, Scientologists are being refused access to state positions.

OK, that could appear discriminatory. But one has to know that the loyalty of a Scientologist is not primarily to the state, to his job, or even to his own conscience, but exclusively to the orders which he receives from the organization. Therefore it is justified not to install such people in government positions.

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