"We are happy for German vigilance"
[Keep in mind this is an interpreted translation, which means
quote marks do not indicate the exact words used.]
"We are happy for German vigilance"
Gerry Armstrong's interview with TAZ staff
Berlin, Germany
Former Scientology member Gerry Armstrong has had a
series of press interviews in Berlin and Hamburg. We will
document the text of an interview which he gave to staff
editors of the TAZ daily newspaper," Bernhard Poetter
and Bernd Pickert. We thank the editorial staff at the daily
newspaper, as well as Mr. Bernhard Poetter and Mr.
Bernd Pickert for permission to reprint their article, which
first appeared in the "tageszeitung" of November 7, 1997. -
the editors
Mr. Armstrong, did Scientology leave you alone after
you left the organization?
Of course not. The organization knew that I presented a
threat because of what I knew. They declared me to be a
"Suppressive Person" [how Scientology defines its critics
- ed.] Such a person is subject to what Scientology calls its
"Fair Game" doctrine: he may and should be slandered,
threatened, deceived and destroyed.
What did they do with you?
They set private detectives on me and my wife practically
24 hours a day. For a period of one month, in August
1982, these private detectives came onto our property and
looked through our windows, threatened us, and drove at
me on the street, slamming on their brakes at the last
minute, all the things meant to make us nervous.
And with what result?
Scientology finally gave me a contract to sign. It forbade
me from talking about my experiences with Scientology. If
I were to do that, then I could be prosecuted and would
have to pay a $50,000 fine. This interview with you costs
$50,000!
Then why did you sign it?
My attorney was also undergoing operations like mine. He
had the feeling that they were going to murder him, they
had threatened his family, they brought him to court fifteen
times. He was the one who finally insisted that the thing be
put to an end - and so he goaded me into signing. This
contract stated that I would not be permitted to say
anything more and, in return, Scientology would cease its
"Fair Game" operations on me. The war was supposed to
be over.
And was it over? No, actually Scientology continued
attacking me and the others who signed in the media. They
published their own version of my experiences - which was
simply lies.
But didn't the contract have any kind of regulating
force?
No western country would regard such a contract as legal.
But Scientology is so rich that it can afford the most
expensive attorneys to use the courts against you. I regard
that as corruption. Therefore I speak out here in Germany,
too.
Germany, however, is under particular pressure from
the USA. There is currently more freedom in Germany
than in the United States. Many in the USA who are in my
situation are happy about the vigilance which Germany has
for this organization.
Is Scientology really so big and dangerous?
Scientology claims it has ten million members. I don't
believe that; there are maybe 150,000 worldwide. These
150,000, however, are totally devoted to the organization.
They do absolutely everything and follow every order.
They are in all levels of society. Scientology is constructed
like an intelligence agency: it collects information on
people, organizations and finances.
But what does Scientology want with that? World
domination?
They would love that. Within the organization they always
talk about a "cleared land" or about a "Scientology land."
A land that is ruled by Scientology
Is there a genuine strategy for that or is it just a
figure of speech?
Almost every activity in Scientology is described in detail in
elaborate programs. In them operations to be developed
are described step by step - whether it concerns "black
propaganda" or operations against persons.
And what is the goal of all this activity?
The end goal is control of everything in sight. World
domination. Of course they are far away from that, even
from controlling a single country. But in order to carry out
something in a new country, you don't necessarily have to
have absolute control. As you can see, they have already
made some progress in the USA.
Do you mean to claim that Scientology controls the
United States?
If one manages to set a precedent in court in the USA,
then one controls a portion of the justice system.
Scientology has much money, and it uses this money to
bring about court decisions in its favor. So it sets
precedential cases - and intimidates others: victims,
attorneys and judges. Still Scientology, of course, is far
away from controlling the Supreme Court of the United
States.
Do you think it is right that Scientology be under
surveillance with intelligence methods like it is by
Constitutional Security in Germany?
If you accept that there no justification for the existence of
of a private intelligence agency, that an intelligence agency
should collect information for the purpose of contributing to
the security of a country - then I would say yes.
Scientology is a threat to the democratic constitution of
every country.
But what exactly is this threat? Isn't that infinitely
exaggerated?
It is not a threat which one has to defend himself against
with armed force. But Scientology has this totalitarian end
goal, it is here in Germany and is committing human rights
violations - that is justification for keeping an eye on it. I do
not demand the annihilation of Scientology or of
Scientologists, either. But one has to know certain things
and make sure the word gets around. I don't know of any
operations by the German government which would
exceed the limits.
In Bavaria, Scientologists are being refused access
to state positions.
OK, that could appear discriminatory. But one has to
know that the loyalty of a Scientologist is not primarily to
the state, to his job, or even to his own conscience, but
exclusively to the orders which he receives from the
organization. Therefore it is justified not to install such
people in government positions.
-------
Unofficial translations of German media, For non-commercial use only
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German_Scn_News <german_scn_news@hotmail.com>
Tue, 18 Apr 2000 16:31:21 -0400
Bernhard Poetter and Bernd Pickert
November 7, 1997
taz
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