Since some of the materials which describe the $cientology cult could be
considered to be copywritten materials, I have censored myself and The
Skeptic Tank by deleting any and all possible text files which describes
the cult's hidden mythologies. I have elected to quote just a bit of the
questionable text according to the "Fair Use" legal findings afforded to
those who report. - Fredric L. Rice, The Skeptic Tank, 09/Sep/95
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
From news.interserv.net!news.sprintlink.net!EU.net!news.eunet.fi!anon.penet.fi Tue Jul 18 10:03:32 1995
Message-ID: <031317Z16071995@anon.penet.fi>
Path: news.interserv.net!news.sprintlink.net!EU.net!news.eunet.fi!anon.penet.fi
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: an248805@anon.penet.fi (Clambo)
X-Anonymously-To: alt.religion.scientology
Organization: Anonymous forwarding service
Reply-To: an248805@anon.penet.fi
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 03:09:43 UTC
Subject: Hey ClamSquat!
Lines: 253
Hey ClamSquat... er Standup, is this the Cynthia Kisser you are slobbering
about?
"Q...... do you have any personal
knowledge of conspiracies to murder and suicide with
regard to the Church of Scientology? "
A. Yes, I do.
"Q. And what is that personal knowledge briefly?
As I say, we will get into it later. "
A. Through a -- through several conversations by phone,
also in a personal meeting in November of 1991 and in a
meeting in December of '91 at the Church of Scientology
Saint Hill organization building, where the Office of Special
Affairs and Bowles & Moxon is actually located, I was
directed, one, to go to Chicago, Illinois and to murder
Cynthia Kisser, Cynthia Kisser being the Executive Director
of the Cult Awareness Network, by a staged car accident.
"The suggested method was cutting her brake lines but it
was later talked about that because Cynthia Kisser drives
a Ford Bronco that it might not be possible to cut a brake
line, so therefore, I could release brake fluid and tamper
with the vehicle in such a way that it would render it out of
control at which time I would be in a vehicle behind it. I would
run her off the road, hopefully running her into a ditch or into
a tree. And then making sure she did not survive the accident.
"So the suggested ways of following up was to take a pillow
and smothering her to death. Another method was dragging
her out of the vehicle and drowning her. It was also
discussed including her young daughter and killing her in the accident.
"Q. Mr. Scarff, Are you okay to continue? "
A. I didn't know she had a young daughter at the time.
"Q. Would you like to take a break?
"Q. What was said at that meeting by whom? "
A. First David Butterworth recalled my meeting with him.
Just prior to that it was like two and a half weeks prior to that
when I first met him at the Cult Awareness Network conference
in Oklahoma City and he recalled our conversation where I
asked him if I was doing all I could to meet their conditions
of amending my past where I was not obedient and where
I had cursed the Church of Scientology and where I had
made up lies to hurt the Church of Scientology when I was
angry at the world and he said there was one more thing
that they wanted to do. And it was something that would
ultimately bring down the Cult Awareness Network. "They
said that up to that point that everything they had tried to do
was not successful and that they wanted to get rid of Cynthia
Kisser once and for all because she was the whole reason
that the Cult Awareness Network existed. She was the
glue that held it together and if they could get rid of
Cynthia Kisser once and for all that there would be no one
there competent enough to replace her. And it was Eugene
Ingram that said that Priscilla Coates might step in but that
the "old broad" was "not intelligent enough or didn't have
enough time on her hands or something to that effect that
she would be able to walk in and take over for Cynthia
Kisser. "So in order to destroy the Cult Awareness Network
all we had to do was destroy Cynthia Kisser. And I
assumed when he said this that he meant simply attacking
her credibility as they have done in the past but doing it
with much more vigor than they have done so in the past.
"Q. What else was said at that conversation, at that meeting? "
A. Only that they talked to me about the specific
operation where, if I performed this operation that if L.
Ron was still alive he would be honored to have me at his
side and that Mr. Ingram informed me that David
Miscavige was personally aware of this operation and
considered it an honorable role on my behalf, would
welcome me with open arms if I was to perform this
operation, and then we got into the specifics of what
they wanted me to do.
"Q. And were the specifics what you testified about with regard
to Cynthia Kisser just before the break -- let me withdraw
the question.
"Q. What were the specifics of the operation very briefly?
A. The specifics of the operation was for me to fly to
Chicago O'Hare Airport, rent a vehicle with the
information provided to me by the Office of Special Affairs
in Los Angeles and the OSA in Chicago particularly with
the tools provided to me by Randy Kretchmar, who is an
official of the OSA in Chicago, to follow Cynthia Kisser
home, run her off the road and take all steps necessary
to render Cynthia Kisser dead. "It was also discussed for
a greater impact in these events that if someone within the
Cult Awareness Network got smart enough to replace
Cynthia with someone else, and that if Cynthia Kisser had
her daughter with her, it would be an added benefit to kill
Cynthia Kisser and to kill her daughter as well, because
when a child dies it carries a greater impact in the ; minds of
the public than if simply an adult dies, and that would send a
message to the Cult Awareness Network that it was time to
end their hatred toward whom they perceived to be }cults.
Q. Now, was Gene Ingram present at that meeting? "
A. He was present, yes.
Q. did he say anything at that meeting?
A. Yes, he did. He told me that there was absolutely no
way that I could be held l accountable if I -- there is no
way I could be caught -- first of all, that immediately after
I did l it I was to fly back to Los Angeles and that Mr.
Ingram would be responsible for putting me l into to a safe
house and if need be, he could ferret me out of the country to
Brazil or Mexico l City or one of the other places that they
have established safe houses at. And that they would l keep
me there until the steam blew off or until Bowles & Moxon
was successful enough in l impeding any type of legal
investigation towards me and that I would be held not
accountable l for these crimes, and it was specifically
discussed that they would put me into hiding and that l any type
of criminal investigation that was pending towards me, any type
of legal investigation l that may have started as a result of this
murder, that Bowles & Moxon would step in and l throw so
many legal maneuvers at the courts that there is no way that I
would be eventually l prosecuted for this crime. And Eugene
laughed and said that --he said, 'Trust me. I mean the court
dockets are so overloaded right now, if Bowles & Moxon
was to throw all these legal maneuvers at the courts there do
be absolutely no way that prosecutors would find the time to
want to prosecute you for something like this.
"Q. Now, I think you said that there was some discussion
with Mr. Ingram as to how he could hide you after killing
Cynthia Kisser? "
A. Yes. He said, like I said before, he said he had
relatives in Brazil. He could get me to Brazil. I told him
that I didn't have a passport because the only places
that I have been out of the country was Mexico and
Canada and they didn't require passports. He said he
could provide me a passport. I wouldn't even have to
go down to the Post Office and apply for it. That he
could give me one right away. "And he also said that
he had a son in Colorado going to college and that
there were places in around the Denver & Boulder,
Colorado areas which could be used as safe houses
where they could hide me.t (Deposition of Garry L.
Scarff, at p. 34_, In. 4 - p. 365, in. 9.)
"Q. Now, there is the word "Moxon" in the word Bowlers & Moxon.
Do you know who Moxon refers to?
"A. Yes. That refers to attorney Kendrick Moxon.
"Q. And have you met attorney Kendrick Moxon? A. Yes, I have.
"Q. And during the worst of your meetings with Kendrick Moxon,
have you obtained any understanding as to part of his background? "
A. Yes, I have.
"Q. And what is that understanding you have as to earlier
significant events in his background? "
A. In both conversations with Mr. Moxon himself, he seems
pretty proud of the fact, and in conversations with Eugene
Ingram, David Butterworth and Sue Taylor, who is the Director
of Public Affairs, Church of Scientology in Washington, D.C.,
Mr. Moxon was one of the original coconspirators involved in
Operation Snow White against the FBI and the Internal Revenue
Service which resulted in the arrest and conviction of 11
high-ranking members of the Church of Scientology in Washington,
D.C. which also included the imprisonment of L. Ron Hubbard's wife,
Mary Sue Hubbard. "Mr. Moxon is very proud of the fact that he was
intimately involved in that whole unlawful affair and the FBI never
caught him. He is proud of fact that he got away with doing
unlawful stuff and he never got arrested or convicted for it.
"Q. Have you had any conversations with Mr. Moxon in which
you gave he that impression?
A. Yes. I did. When I spoke to Moxon my serious concerns
about being caught and prosecuted for killing both Cynthia
Kisser and killing Ford Greene, he mentioned this Snow White
operation in which he was a part of and he tried to assure me
there was absolutely nothing to worry about because I could
trust him and I could trust the other legals to help me get
away with this. He claimed there was no way anyone was going to
find out." (Deposition of Garry L. Scarff, at p. 378, in. 18 - p. 380,
in. 13.)
. Q. Before we proceed with a discussion of the meeting regarding the
conspiracy to murder Ford Greene, I would like to return briefly to
the meeting you testified to regarding the conspiracy to murder
Cynthia Kisser. "Now, did there come a time that weekend or at the
end of that weekend when you left Los Angeles? "
A. Yes, I did. I left on Monday.
"Q. And before you left Los Angeles did you have any further
meetings at the Church of Scientology? "
A. Yes, I did.
"Q. And with whom did you have any such further meetings? "
A. Eugene Ingrarn took me upstairs to the offices of
Bowles & Moxon because he said that Tim and Kendrick
wanted to say good-bye to me because they had not had
the chance to speak with me before. And I said good-bye
to Tim but Kendrick was in a depo or a session of some
sort according to Eugene so I didn't get to see him. But
Tim greeted me very warmly and said that he knew that I
was there for the weekend but he was busy with stuff and
hadn't had the chance to talk with me, and that was it.
"Q. By 'Tim and Kendrick' who do you mean? "
A. I'm talking about Timothy Bowles and Kendrick Moxon,
who are attorneys for Bowles & Moxon, the in-house law
firm for Scientology.
"Q. Now, did you have any understanding as to their
knowledge, if any, of the meeting you had had regarding
the conspiracy to murder Cynthia Kisser? "
A. I presumed from my knowledge and my experience within
the Church of Scientology and the policies that are
strictly adhered to within the Church of Scientology
that one does not speak on behalf of another, and that
when Mr. Ingram and Mr. Butterworth were advising me
that once the murder had been committed that we would
have Bowles & Moxon intervene on my behalf on a legal
basis, I was confident then that Tim Bowles and
Kendrick Moxon knew exactly about the conspiracy
because Ingram -- particularly David Butterworth,
who is a Scientology member, in the face of being
punished with RPF would not compromise his high-
ranking position in the Church of Scientology by
saying something with regards to Bowles and Moxon
unless Bowles & Moxon was specifically aware of the
statement that was being made to me. "And so it was
my confident feeling that Timothy Bowles given the
fact of the way that he greeted me, said that he
knew that I was in L.A., that Timothy Bowles was
very knowledgeable about the plan for me to go to
Chicago and kill Cynthia Kisser and her daughter."
(Deposition of Garry L. Scarff, at p. 382, in. 15 - p. 384, in. 21.)
c.
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