rc> The sheep have been told that god disapproves of homosexuality,
rc> and they believe that the shepherd is always right. So with
rc> enough faith, hatred is spread thoughtlessly in the guise of love.

Except that not a one of them ever seem to realize that their gods were specifically a set of local tribal gods.

And I will dwell among the children of Israel, and will be their god. And they shall know that I am the lord their god that brought them out of Egypt that I may dwell among them: I am the lord their god. - Exodus 29:45-46

rc> Ah, we could do with a little less faith
rc> and a great deal more understanding.

And a lot more thinking.

>>>I believe that God hates sin, not the sinner.

Good grief. His gods hates a lot of things -- and yet it's always the followers of his gods which inflict evil upon humanity, never his gods themselves. It's always the hatred of the followers which turns the world into a graveyard and ushers in the Dark Age.

rc> I wonder if Mr. Hash believes in a god that sends sinners (not the
rc> sins) to burn in hell.

That would have to be the second pantheon of gods in the New T. since the gods of the Old T. didn't seem to have heard of it.

rc> "Hate the sin, torture the sinner?" But to be perfectly
rc> holy, love the sinner even while stoking the fires of hell.
rc> As the saying goes, with love like that. . . .

Yes, hate black skin, not the Negro. Lovely logic, huh? And what a nicely conveinient way to try to avoid the fact that it is _they_ who hate and it is _innocent_people_ that they hate.

>>> I don't believe that one can believe in just the logical.
>>> With all respect, there is a spiritual side to us.

Spiritual: Anything someone fears or doesn't want to understand.

rc> Pardon my brief excursion here into the patently obvious.
rc> The emotional needs of human beings surely cannot be denied
rc> or ignored without grave consequences. What amazes me
rc> every time I run across statements like the above is that this
rc> plain fact is still used as an excuse for believing in ghosts as
rc> a sort of "explanation" for how it is that we are not merely
rc> logical and rational beings, but emotional and intuitive as well.
rc> Superstition is not a good answer, and certainly not the only
rc> answer.

It doesn't excuse the hatred that the Promise Keeper cul advocates, either.

>>> I believe you and I possess a soul that will live >>> on after our physical bodies die.

And thus we observe the primary reason why Christianity has the highest body count of any cult. Not content to suffer his delusions by himself, he wishes to drag everyone else down into the stagnant pools of self deception.

rc> Again, don't laugh. Just because there's not a shred of evidence
rc> to support that mindless acceptance of a comforting illusion,
rc> it is his religious belief, and religious beliefs all deserve
rc> respect. Don't they?

These people have no respect for anything or anyone else so no, they don't deserve respect until they earn it. If they had respect for something of virtue, I might grant them some measure of apriori respect.

rc> Then again, some religious beliefs conflict with others, and which
rc> do we respect then? Consider the following, for instance.

And we note that their own cult is fractured into a hundred thousand different pieces, none of which agree with any of the rest.

>>>Where our soul spends eternity depends on our acceptance of
>>>Jesus Christ.

rc> That is blasphemy to a Muslim, for whom there is no intercessor
rc> between man and god.

And is also in direct conflict with the Christian mythologies which state that it was to have been some "savior" named "Immanuel," not "Jesus."

rc> Do we, as atheists -- as people without any religious belief in the
rc> gods -- respect one but not the other? By flipping a coin, perhaps?
rc> Or the old-fashioned way, by siding with the most efficient killers
rc> in the battle between contradictory faiths? No, we must learn from
rc> history instead of repeating it.

And having the courage to choose what's good and right and discard what's evil and wrong.

>>> If you don't believe that God exists, Just go out one clear and
>>> cool evening and look up.

Amazing. The wonderment of the Universe wasn't enough for this guy; he had to contrive elavorate, convolutional fantasies to add to it. Then when someone manages to accept the wonder of existance all on its own, he had the audacity to pretend that reality is predicated upon his evil constructs.

rc> Done more times than I can remember. I recommend it even for
rc> those who may happen to harbor an irrational, unwarranted theism.

I've backpacked a telescope all over Santa Catalina Island.

But what's more important, we, as humanists and atheists, understand the beauty of physical processes and phenomena must better than any cultist who opens his yap in drooling wonder and demands, "The gods musta dun it."

>>>An accident that started with a bang? Maybe, but someone had
>>>to light the fuse!

And yet another quasibiped expresses his ignorance about quantum physics.

rc> Likewise, someone else had to wind up the tin god and teach him
rc> how to flick his bic. There is no end to this infinite regression
rc> of gods creating gods creating universes giving birth to more gods
rc> who create more universes. Obviously there are no answers
rc> to be found by chasing religious ghosts through the metaphysical
rc> mazes of make believe.

It's "gods all the way up," Robert, and turtles all the way down.

rc> The universe is here; this we know. To postulate a god in addition
rc> is to make up something extra without any justification. Gods are
rc> what we humans invent in our ignorance to try to explain away
rc> the unknown. But we don't have all the answers. The truly mature
rc> will not say "God did it" but instead "I don't
rc> know."

It's worse than that. To pretend that gods are responsible is BLASPHEMY to the very gods they create. There is no evidence of any intelligence in any physical process -- none. To demand that the chaos and calamity which marks all of existance is the work of gods is utter blasphemy.

rc> The difference between a theist and an atheist is how long it takes
rc> to make that honest admission.

Now there's an understatement.

rc> The world rests on a giant turtle. Is it turtles all the way down?
rc> I don't know.

It is. My priesthood told me it is. They wouldn't lie, would they? I mean, they have nothing to gain, right? No money, no political power, no control over the mindless followers. There's no reason for the priesthood to lie about such obvious truths, right?

rc> Theists are those who keep the giant turtle;
rc> atheists are those who do not.

And that's also literally true for some Christians who still wish to believe that the Earth is flat just like their paper idol tells them.

rc> So how does this difference affect us in the real world? Well, to
rc> start with, it is hard to justify the spread of hatred on the basis
rc> of "I don't know." If we don't know, then our feelings
rc> could lead us to the wrong conclusions. Knowing that, we cannot
rc> condemn someone as evil based only on a feeling.

Which accounts for the exhibition of higher morality among humanists and atheists.

rc> A secular person can hate gays and homosexuality, and some do,

How many have we encountered in HolySmoke over the span of seven years? Less than 5. How many Christians have we encountered that express their hatred over that samme time span? At minimum _hundreds_.

rc> but how much easier for hatred to flourish under the illusion of
rc> certainty that comes with the faith that "God said it; I
rc> believe it; that settles it."

And so much easier to demonize the innocent and unify the evil.

rc> Faith is blind. That's why it so often carries hatred along with
rc> the rest of the cargo. The Promise Keepers are no exception.

The existance of the Ku Klux Klan and Aryan Nations -- fine Christian organizations, both -- wasn't enough for these cultists. They wanted one which could subjecate the upity women of Amerikkka and demonize the gays of the world.

vh> I really wanted your response instead of Mr. Curry's response. You
vh> have made it clear that you do not wish any dialogue with me;
vh> hence, your message: No more of your hate spew. I tried to
vh> understand your idea of "hate" by asking you your view
vh> points. I guess I asked too much or I offended you. Neither
vh> were my intentions. Have a good life. Vic Hash

When you send hate mail to anyone on staff here at The Skeptic Tank, it is normal for everyone else to receive a copy. Most of the hate mail that some into The Skeptic Tank is discarded since it's so illiterate and contains nothing but cussing and insane voodoo threats. Yet as I recall, I suggested that you leave your hate spew in your Christian church where it belongs and then passed your rant along in the event anyone else wished to handle you.

I'm glad to see that Mr. Curry decided to address your unfortunate beliefs and bigotries and I've decided that I would include his response in with the ever-growing Promise Keeper Cult web page series.

One thing that you may like to address is your insane justification for the demonization of gays. "A god said I could" just isn't rational, you understand.

Or do you?

If you're interested in getting help escaping from that cult, that's something else we here at The Skeptic Tank can assist in. I know that the courage needed is hard to come by yet there are a large number of testimonials from a number of people just like you who managed to open their eyes, free their brains, and just walk away.

We can help.

>>Dear Mr. Curry, I guess when I e-mailed Mr. Rice, I did not expect
>>him to share my letter with someone else but what is done is done.
>>It was clear that Mr. Rice no longer wants to converse and I feel
>>I must and will respect this.

Perhaps I need to explain what "staff" means at the bottom of every page of The Skeptic Tank's web site. I can't imagine how I could describe it in terms that morons are capable of understanding.

>>It may suprise you that I do have friends that are atheist.

rc> Not in the least. Nor am I sure why such a thing would even be
rc> considered potentially surprising.

I can't help but equate what he said with the, "I don't hate blacks. I have several friends which are black."

rc> I much prefer the Silver Rule, which is more preventative:
rc> Do NOT do to others what you would NOT have them do to you.

I much perfer the Bronze Rule: Do under others as THEY would want you to do to them.

>>As far as your statement about believing in Jesus being blasphemy >>to a Muslim, sorry to say that is not so.

rc> I suggest that you read my statement more carefully. You claimed
rc> that what someone believes about Jesus will determine where they
rc> spend eternity, did you not? THAT is blasphemous in Islam.

It is. In fact Muslims accept the Jesus character as just another prophet; a prophet of less value than Mr. Moh.

>" Believing in" is far more vague that the claim to which I
>> responded. While in Jordan, I found that Jesus is believed to
>> be a great teacher and profit. They do not believe he is the
>> source of there salvation; however, they have a great respect
>> for "believers" and just simply disagree with Jesus
>> being God.

Which is why they kill people if it's even alleged that someone said something bad about their prophet.

>> The Bible even says that the demons believe in Jesus and
>> tremble; however, this doesn't make them, the demons,
>> a lovable group.

<laughing!> Yeah, Robert. You see, the Christian demons believe in all the other Christian fictional constructs. Now _there's_ a logical argument.

rc> So I've noticed. Thanks for providing me with a religiously
rc> correct term for your clinic-bombing brethren.

Christianity has the highest body count of any cult. I wonder how this cultist manages to reconcile the historic evil of his cult and his own hatred and bigotry. If a Muslim expressed his level of hatred, no doubt this cultist would have demanded that a Christian "demon" construct was responsible.

>> How did the universe begin? Don't fall over... I don't know
>> but I do believe that God did, in some way.

But then we already knew that he believed in unevidenced, evil nonsense.

rc> You can believe that the Tooth Fairy did it, but believing does
rc> not make it so. Clearly you are caught in a dogmatic belief
rc> system that lacks supporting evidence. But then, if there were
rc> any real evidnece, you wouldn't need something as arbitrary
rc> and subjective as religious faith, would you?

Woops! He forgot to mention where his gods came from. It's still "gods all the way up and turtles all the way down."

>> But if you will interview many of the astronomers, as I have,
>> most will agree to the existence of a supreme being.

<laughing!> Notice how the cultist forgot to include any _NAMES_?

rc> Which will provide a scrap of evidence to support such empty
rc> religious superstition, though?

Perhaps he's thinking of Carl Sagan. <smile>

>> I know you don't agree but one should consider others view
>> points with respect even though they differ with our own.

And just _fuck_ the fact that his cult's "viewpoints" have been the bane of humanity and ushered in the most evil of any cult ever.

>> Your question: I wonder if Mr. Hash believes in a God that sends
>> sinners to burn in Hell? My answer is as much as a judge sends
>> a thief to prison.

There you have it. This evil cultist pretends that everyone is a criminal and as such it doesn't matter what his cult does to punish them.

rc> If the punishment fits the crime, what crime deserves eternal
rc> imprisonment?

Eternal stupidity.

>> I believe that a person has to literally fight there way into Hell.

How freakish. Too much Diet Coke for this cultist.

rc> In which case honest atheists are entirely safe, as they merely
rc> do not believe in demons, angels, gods and hells.

Not to mention most of the world's population. I wonder if this nut even knows the origins of his "hell" myth.

>> Mr. Curry, I would like to acknowledge the fact that you
>> and I have beliefs that are totally opposite

rc> Totally opposite? Somehow I doubt that.

Yeah, Robert. Tell us what "beliefs" you have.

>> One thing is for sure, we will both find out when we die.

<rofl!> I love the childish overtones of this threat. "My daddy will beat you up after you're dead! Then ya'll see!"

rc> As I do not belong to a death cult, my focus is on life. You
rc> will learn nothing when you cease to exist, so make the most
rc> of what you have here and now.

Punishment and reward. The political means of controlling the ignorant and the gullible.

>> I wish we had been able to talk face to face. I think that
>> there is much communication lost when communicating any
>> other way.

rc> It is different, yes, but on the other hand you can keep a
rc> record of what is exchanged in writing, and look back on it
rc> to assist in understanding it more clearly later on.

I perfer typed as well since it allows liars who claimed they never said something to have it rubbed into their nose.

>>With that, I want to wish you well in your life. Take care.

Unless you're gay, that is.

rc> Likewise.

Yeah. Wish at him. That'll help. <smile>

jc> When you die, you will have all the evidence you need.

What a charming death cult ideology you have there, dear.

Did you know that your insane threats are wasted upon the educated? Only those who believe in occult voodoo magic can be controlled by such threats, fear, and intimidation.

Are you sure you wouldn't want to try some other method?

>> To all- When the world ends, I hope to see all of you
>> in heaven, rejoicing His name.

fr> How freakish. Do you have any evidence for this "world ends?"

I didn't get an answer to this. Golly. I wonder why.

fr> Do you have any evidence for this "heaven?"

Still waiting. I would like to know where you came up with this insane delusion of yours, if you wouldn't mind telling me. If you find it embarrassing, I will understand.

fr> And who is this "His" (sic) that you're refering to?

Curiously you didn't answer this question, either. You claimed that a man had expressed some homosexual feelings for me. While I'm not gay, I really do think I should nip this in the bud, so-to-speak, and put an end to any amourous designs your friends have on me.

>>>Sir, the rally on DC included all races.

fr>> What "rally?" Don't you think it would be wise to not
fr>> start a sentence from the middle?

fr> Why no answer? Won't your masters allow you to answer honest questions?

That's strange. You forgot to answer the question again. Curious.

>>>Sir, in the bible, what happened to the cities who practised
>>>homosexuality?

fr>> Cities are incapable of either heterosexual or homosexual activity.

fr> Well? Couldn't you answer this question either, bigot? Or have
fr> you been so poorly programmed by your cult masters that you can't
fr> even come up with a suitable lie?

If you're too embarrassed to answer the question, might I suggest that any resentment you might feel is misdirected if it's directed at me. You have only yourself and your masters to blame, you understand.

fr>> What a freakishly disjointed message you've sent me. Amazing.
fr> There's an understatement.

<smile> And it still is.

t>I can see that you are under control of a great amount of hate, and evil

How strange. While this cultist is off imagining invisible platfriends for himself, he's managed to find enough time to think-up some stuff for me, too.

How thoughtful.

t>Jesus said,

No one knows whether a "Jesus" ever lived, leave alone what it might have said and what it might have said.

If you can't think of suitable _reason_ to back up your insane notions, might I suggest you remain silent rather than unthinkingly spout off occult nonsense like a busted shitpipe?

I merely suggest it.

t>order, you think because of your lifestyle choice, that God hates you,
t>but we have all sinned,

Only death cultists are capable of "sinning" since "sin" is an occult belief not subject to reason. As an atheist, I'm incapable of sinning.

What you're attempting to do is pin your evil delusions upon your intellectual and moral superiors since you are resentful of the fact that there are others who don't live in constant fear like you do.

t> and Jesus died for your sins,

Golly, just like Lord Krishna 300 years before the "Jesus" construct and just like Mithra some 600 years before.

t> God says that, the whole world lies in iniqity, and Great Darkness.
t> Jesus is the light of the world, and he brings light in Great
t> Darkness.

Which is why the death cult has the highest body count of any cult ever and why Christianity was the cause of every Dark Age.

You know, if you need helkp escaping that cult, I or someone on staff here can help you escape. One of the things that so many cultists like you find useful in attempting to gain the courage needed to escape is the many testimonials that are availble here.

If you're trying to work your way up to asking for help escaping, let me know.

>Hey Fred..I just have one question.

Just one? <smile> And yet you feel you can ask questions of me and not even bother answering any of mine. How typical of death cultists who think they can mouth off without having to back up their insane claims.

> To whom or what do you give credit for the
> creation of all you see and know to exist?

That's the classical logical fallacy known as "begging the question." Before you may ask who or what "created" something, you must first show that something was created. Then you must show what created your creator. Until you do that you can't beg the question.

As for the most probable origins of the universe, I could suggest some popularized physics and cosmology text books which will be available at your local library.

> aliens?

What created these "aliens?" Other aliens? And what created them? As you can see, it's "aliens all the way up and turtles all the way down."

> Is it all a religious hoax? a figment of our imagination?

What would prompt someone to ask such silly, illogical questions?

>>> Well Fred, I read your references and I still don't agree with
>>> your point of view but that is what makes this country great,
>>> isn't it?

fr> Most cults do, yes. And not always been
fr> cult followers and their detractors.

I noticed that you decided not to comment about this. If you were embarrassed by your inability to respond rationally, might I suggest that you ask yourself if your resentment is directed properly toward ytour priesthood where the fault lies?

>>> We can say what we think and not be tossed in jail.

fr> Unless the Religious Reich gets its way, yes.

Or do you deny the history of the Christian cult?

>>> You obviously have strong convictions

fr> Yes, tolerance, equality, love and understanding... these are the
fr> attributes of humanity which are the things which stand between the
fr> health and safety of the world and the evil which religon seeks to
fr> impose once again upon the world.

And you didn't comment here, either.

Why is it you death cultists never answer questions or address the issues and yet your intellectual and moral superiors provide detailed answers in debth?

>>> and I hope you find what your looking for in your skepticism.

fr> That would be reason, education, knowledge,
fr> reality -- just to name a few.

And once again you offered no comment.

>>>Take care and... give God a chance

fr> "Let's trust in god who has always fooled us in the past."

All gods fir this description, by the way.

fr> When you come up with some evidence for these gods of yours,
fr> you'll get back to me, I hope.

That's strange. You forgot.

>>>> I hope you may change your mind as you learn more about PK
>>>> and the good effect it could have on our society. We as
>>>> a nation need something to pull us together. Everything
>>>> going on today seems to be driving us all away from one
>>>> another.

fr>> "Pull us together..." unless you happen to be female,
fr> black, or gay. I note that your masters wouldn't allow you to
fr> address this fact.

And yet once again your masters wouldn't allow you to address this fact.

fr>> Might I suggest that you learn what the cult stands for and what
fr>> it advocates before mistakenly spouting off your master's
fr>> party line? A little helpful advice. You didn't take it,
fr>> it seems.

But then I knew you wouldn't. You're a Christian. You're not allowed to.

>>> It's obvious you aren't a reader of, or a believer in the bible
>>> and for that I'm truly sorry.

fr>> Well, someone who can look at the evil Promise Keeper cult and
fr>> pretend that it's not utterly evil could easilly make such
fr>> silly assumptions. In fact I have read the Christian
fr>> mythologies several times and have, more to the point,
fr>> understood what's in it and, even more importantly, understood
fr>> the origins of the myths.

fr> Isn't it strange that you made a mistaken assumption, got corrected on
fr> it, and then some how forgot to admit that you made a mistake?
fr> Isn't that also something typical of cultists?

It sure does. It tells us that Christianity is nothing but willful self- deception. The history of the cult shows is that it is nothing short of evil.

>>> I sense a lot of hate in you life and I wish you peace.

fr>> Well, that's three mistaken assumptions on your part.
fr>> You're at least batting 1000.

fr> Now there's another understatement.

If we could only channel that ignorance of yours and have you bat for the Dodgers.

TGSCREEN@aol.com:
>>> I will pray the lord that he turns you from that life style,

fr> It looks as though your masters have told you to pretend that I'm
fr> gay. That would make your hatred and bigotry so much easier
fr> to dismiss, wouldn't it?

rs> Yeah! Wouldn't it.

It already did. Now that he's learned that I'm not gay, he has no excluse for his demonization, anger, and resentment of me -- other than the fact that the truth hurts.

Of course some of my best friends are gay. }:-} But then some of my best friends also have brown eyes!!! (The horror. The horror.)

rs> Won't he be spinning when he finds out that you treat all people
rs> with dignity and respect that deserve it, eh Fredric? :)

Exactly. What they _deserve_, not what they assume they deserve apriori. If I characterize a group of individuals, it is with a clear understanding of the history of that group as evidenced by its actions. If gays exhibited dangerous traits or inflicted evil upon the world, I would not defend their civil and Constitutional rights for equality as they would, I feel, not deserve them.

rs> Now, a question to the filthy Christian degenerate:

Good luck getting an honest answer.

rs> Is it nice playing bash the faggot, Christian, solely
rs> because you have nothing better in your life to do
rs> but oppress?

His wife won't let him oppress her, perhaps.

rs> Why aren't you out doing some of the things the bible suggests
rs> you do, like helping the poor and the down-trodden?

Feeding the poor is no way to help keep their masters rich and in power.

rs> Or is that *harder* than sitting back with your book and judging
rs> other people's lives according to *YOUR* interpretation of
rs> that book?

It's far easier to unthinkingly mouth off hatred programmed into them by their masters than to think and free their own minds.

j> Again, like I said before, your filthy tongue
j> shows not only your I.Q. but your ignorance.

That's strange. You "forgot" to provide specifics again. How curious. Perhaps you could attempt to correct that oversight the next time your masters instruct you to unthinkingly mouth off a rant.

> You believe only what suits your web.

That's strange. You didn't offer any specifics here, either. Curious.

> I didn't say the man was innocent in reference to the event,
> what I'm trying to get across is that humans fail.

More so when they're Christianic death cultists, I know. Your point was what, again?

> That's right my friend even YOU.

Except that when I do so I recognize the fact and don't repeat it. Cultists, on the other hand, ignore the fact and pretend they may continue on as if it just didn't matter.

Cultists like yourself and your hero, I point out.

> That sick and perverted reference to a 7 year old girl came
> from the heresay words of a prostitute

Which your master repeatedly hired to fuck.

> and you just flatly believe it without any proof.

In fact had any of it been even slightly in error, your master would have sued her pants off. And then fucked her for $20.00 again.

> THIS IS THE VERY THING THAT YOU ACCUSE CHRISTIANS OF DOING?!?!.

That's strange. You "forgot" to provide any specifics again. Golly.

> Believing something without any proof!.

Just ignore the photographs that were taken of your master outside of the No-Tell Motel and try your best you convince yourself that no evidence exists.

> BOY you seemed to get mixed up don't you.

I'm not the one trying desperately to cling to a dishonest cult master caught with his dick up some prostitute.

> The unforgiveness and bitterness that you hold towards the man is > just more proof that the world is filled with evil and corruption.

And Christianity is the cause for most of the evil the world knows. Or don't you know the history of your death cult?

j> You keep referring to me as a cultist.

Don't you have any idea what constitutes a cult, dear? Or must someone look it up for you and explain it to you slowly? Or perhaps you would perfer that Barney sing it to you?

j> What do you think the Atheist belief is??!

<laughing!> Capitalizing the word won't turn it into a political party, you know. And trying to pretend that the lack of a belief in all the gods and goddesses some how constitutes a belief is like trying to pretend that bald is a hair color.

You cultists will unthinkingly mouth off any absurdity, huh?

j> You're the one with the "web page" not me!

Your the cultist trying desperately to deend your cult master, not I.

j> and you're calling ME a cultist? (laughs)

Be sure to get the blue collar with that new jacket that has arms which tie in the back. And while you're restrained from hurting yourself further, do spend some time looking up the meaning of the word "cultist."

j> You really need a life bud. Maybe you should REALLY consider Jesus.

Oh yes, I consider many fictional Alpha Male constructs every day. Lord Krishna is a superior one to your fictional construct, I might add, and hasn't been given the horrible body count that your cult has attributable to it.

a> May you find GOD.

There's thousands to choose from. If you're looking for one in particular, perhaps I might be able to help you or otherwise suggest one which you might find useful.

a> If not, hell will be your home forever.

The Goddess Hel only ruled over those who had died of old age or who had become infirm due to disease. I seriously doubt that you have evidence for either the Goddess or the God you refer to yet I should probably go ahead and ask if you have any anyway, huh?

Do you have any evidence for _any_ of your fictional constructs?

gs> Dear Fredric;

Please, call me Fred.

gs> OK....deeeep breath!

Have you climbed down from that tree? <smile>

I have no idea who you are ort why you need to take a deep breath. Since I and everyone on staff here at The Skeptic Tank receive a great deal of mail, it's impossible, I assure you, to keep track of all of the cultists who write to us.

gs> Don't you think that any hard truth, particularly an embarrassing one,
gs> is most effectively received when delivered with a kind and gentle
gs> spirit?

No. Emotives don't factor into the validity or falsehood of a fact and it doesn't matter an iota whether anyone considers the fact -- or those who would present them -- unkind, kind, violent, or gentle. One evaluates a claim not upon who makes it or how they make it but upon the relevant evidencial data and whether it ahears to unalterable physical laws.

gs> A good (or bad) spirit is contagious!

And swings with the whims of humanity. A "hard truth" remains unchanged.

gs> I believe that we are primarily spirits, who happen to have a soul
gs> (mind, will, emotions), and live in a body.

But then unevidenced freakish beliefs are required for religious cultists, huh?

gs> That's why the Bible says we are made in God's image: He
gs> is The Almighty Spirit.

The Christian mythologies also state that mustard seeds grow into trees, that bats are birds, that grasshoppers have four legs. The mythologies say a great many obviously false and contradictory things. It would be rather foolish to believe anything one reads that was written by ignorant savages -- more so when it contradicts observational fact.

gs> God is love.

Before you can start making claims for what gods are and what gods are not, you must provide evidenve for your gods. Before you do so you're "putting the cart before the horse."

Now if you're talking about the fictional constructs in the classical Christanic mythologies, might I suggest that you read the mythologies once and divest yourself of the mistaken opinion that the gods depicted within could be attributed to "love?"

gs> He has taught me to love my neighbor as myself.

That's pretty evil. Seek help.

gs> I do not hate or resent people, only the evil they do.

That's also evil. Pretending that innocent people who do yourself, themselves, and no one else any harm is some how "evil" is why your death cult has the bloody body count that it does.

gs> Much of the evil in the world is the result of
gs> people inhabitated by a proud spirit.

Welcome to Christianity.

gs> I'm not up in a tree,

You've certainly hoist yourself by your own petard, that's for sure.

gs> just humbly thankful to God for all He has given
gs> me and is doing in me.

How freakish. Why not educate yourself and divest yourself of that ugly cult and that willful slavery to men? Free your mind, dear, and tell your masters you're on to them and aren't going to take their abuse any longer.

Come _THINK_ with us.

gs> Again, I didn't come to faith blindly,

Actually, you were indoctrinated into the cult and had no ocntrol over what was done to you. It takes great courage to work past that problem and get the courage you need to walk away.

gs> but by a process beginning with serious open minded
gs> Bible study and meditation.

Anyone who reads the Christian mythologies with an open mind can't believe in the mythologies and the deity constructs depicted within. It's simply not at all possible.

gs> God did most of the work.

I would suggest that's a blasphemy of your own deity constructs but you may want to claim that in so doing I'm admitting that one of your gods exists.

gs> I hope and pray that you too will find God's righteousness, love,
gs> joy, and peace in the Holy Spirit. As Klaatu said, "the
gs> choice is yours".

You may think your anger and resentment at me all you wish yet I should like you to know that all the voodoo occult magic directed at me isn't going to cause me to lose any of my education.

gs> God bless you,

And your last comment is an occult threat. Lovely death cult you have fallen into, dear.

js> You play with your verbage and use very BIIIIIIIIIGGGG WOOORRRDDSSS!

It's more commonly known as "having an education," John. There are a great many benefits of having one. Observe how easilly one is able to debunk the willfully ignorant and the superstitious when one has an education.

js> but when it comes right down to the "nitty gritty", you
js> end up saying what I thought you said all along.

That is to say, what your _masters_ programmed into you to say and to believe.

You, unfortunately, had no occasion to make any determination about your unfortunate occultism since, I'm quite certain, you were indoctrinated into the occult from a very young age. One is, sadly, indoctrinated into the cult of one's parents. Had you been born in Iran, you would be ranting about some other gods, you know, and be just as pathetically ignorant and uneducated.

How unfortunate.

js> A bunch of NOISE fueled by ALOT of HOT AIR!

If you're at all interested in improving your poor education, might I suggest that you at least learn that "alot" isn't a word? That's illiterate. What you want to do is spell it "a lot." That way no one could accidentally mistake you for a moron.

While we're helping you discover ways to improve yourself, are you aware of the the "walk away" services which The Skeptic Tank provides? If you are needing courage to help you escape from your cult, you may download a large number of testamonials from people just like you who managed to acquire the courage they needed to just walk away. If you're search for help, click on:

http://www.raids.org/walkaway.htm

m> Based on the poor spelling and typo's in your e-mail, I wouldn't m> necessarily consider you to be my intellectual superior. By the way, m> there are many well-educated Christians.

That's curious. You "forgot" to include any specifics or any examples for any of your master's claims. No doubt you'll manage to remember to do so in the future now that you know what's expected of you.

And as for being your intellectual and moral superior, that's quite evident by your admission of believing in the Christian deity constructs. QED. The unfortunate pathology of believing in invisible playmates after the age of 13 years tends to evidence a very real cognitive upset.

m> I didn't resort to insults

Just occult, unevidenced, unsolicited rants. Did you honestly think that your intellectual superiors could be so easilly fooled as the sheep in your cult?

m> because I do have morals, and my desire is not to argue.

How convenient when you don't _have_ a valid argument, huh?

m> The evidence YOU are looking for will only be found at your passing;

How convenient for you. You're certainly free to make any insane claim and rant on endlessly about your sweaty fantasies, of course, yet don't you think it pretty pathetic to demand that all of your insane claims can't ever be verified until "after you're dead?" How convenient.

As your intellectual and moral superior, I can assure you that I'm not so gullible as you appear to be. Just keep sending your money to your masters, however. You certainly deserve to be bilked.

m> I pray it will not be too late for you. Read the Bible for yourself; m> it may answer some of your questions.

Your insane voodoo threats don't work upon the educated, silly. Only believers in such superstitious nonsense can be threatened by them. While I recognize the placebo effect, I also note that you may think your anger and resentment at me all you wish and I, as always, will remain unaffected by your occult magic.

And as for reading the Christian mythologies, once again your masters have lied to you: I've read many versions of the Christian mythologies many times and -- even more importantly -- I've learned the origins of the myths. That's something your masters won't allow you to do.

I would suggest that _you_ read your paper idol and learn what it really says. Don't tell any of your masters what you intend to do as they frown upon such things. Reading the mytholohgies with an open mind always results in a lack of faith; something that adversely impacts your master's revenues.

jg> Looks like you need to put a little more work into that dust-shaking
jg> ritual, John. By continuing to forward these messages to me, you
jg> are demonstrating that you have issues left unsettled in your
jg> mind.

Now let's be fair and open-minded. He didn't say for how long he was going to be in hiding. Don't you remember when Jesse Christ Jones "left" HolySmoke in a huff of hurt feelings (not to mention shattered faith) and returned in a few days only to demand he didn't say he was leaving for good?

rc> Perhaps I can help you to resolve some of those issues, especially
rc> in consideration of the confession you made, quoted at the end
rc> of this email.

I didn't know you were a qualified psychologist, Mr. Curry. In keeping with the age these poor unfortunates are locked into, might I suggest that a medical doctor be called for some traditional blood letting and leaches? Or perhaps some beads and rattles?

rc> Now on to the correction of your latest delusions:

dr>>> For someone who doesn't believe in GOD, they sure want you

rc> 100% wrong, John.

Not to mention deliciously ironic. No theist who believes in the "Jesus" mythos can ever learn the origins of his or her mythologies for the simple reason that having done so results in the lack of belief. I wonder what these two unfortunate fellows have been told about the so-called "Jesus Seminar" and the findings which came from the sessions.

jg> Rod Get a life!! Most of all get glasses. You obviously got me
jg> mixed up with someone who has time to waste on such as you.

rc> You say you have no time to waste on Rod, yet you waste your time
rc> sending the message not only to him, but to all the others listed
rc> above. He doesn't have you mixed up, John -- you are already mixed
rc> up.

How could he say he has no time when the work he's doing is "for Jesus?" Aren't we all worth just a little effort to try and "save?" How selfish of John to declair us all lost causes (not to mention how conveinient.)

jg> You on the other hand, can only send E-mail cursing me out.

rc> I'm sure that he can do more than that, but he probably
rc> thinks that's all you deserve. Who can blame him, really?

Those who do not reason can not be swayed with reason. Rod provides a valuable service by leaping right to the fundamentals of a person's mental problems and helps to reduce them to their primaries quickly.

Even as the rest of us attempt in vain to educate and reason with the cultists, Rod provides that unfettered directness which is, in its summation, utterly accurate.

rc> Now if you don't mind, John, would you kindly take a few moments
rc> to stop and THINK about what you're doing? You sent your whining
rc> complaint not only to Rod, but also to Fred Rice (among others).
rc> Since you previously complained that you don't want any more email
rc> from Mr. Rice, your actions do not appear to result from anything
rc> even close to intelligent forethought.

I think his motivations are clear enough: He wants to be free to spout off his insane religious superstitions and yet remain free of having to review the sound debunkings of same. This is why he lied to my ISP about my having put him onto some kind of mailing list. He wanted to continue to rant his insane occult nonsense without having to suffer the consequences of his dishonesty.

No atheist would engage in such demonic behavior.

rc> Now for your clue. Pay close attention:

rc> "Only an idiot sends email to someone
rc> he does not want to hear from."

rc> Repeat that to yourself until it sinks in, then please
rc> crawl back under whatever rock you slithered out from.

That would be the Rock of Peter. <smile>

>>>>Where do good and evil come from?
Humans certainly create all the good and evil the world has experienced. Most of the world's evil has been conducted by the hands of Christians, of course. I wonder how this cultist manages to reconcile that fact with his unfortunate beliefs about what his cult stands for.
rc>> From the same place as compassion and selfishness, congruency
rc>> and discontinuity, complacency and wanderlust, hunger and
rc>> curiosity and all the other abstract concepts and basic emotions
rc>> that we discover within ourselves during the course of living.
You may need to spell it out for him in loving detail since he would appear to lack the acumen required to make the determination on his own. I keep referencing Dr. Susan Blackmore's academic publications when these issues come up since I've managed to review extract from some of her and her colleague's work.
rc>> Your turn. Where do gods come from?
>>gods (small g) are fallen angels in masquerade...
How freakish. His "Jesus" is a "fallen angel." Zeus, Apollo, Ra, Adonis, Hera, Odin... they're all Christian "angels."
Isn't it so very convienient for cultists to turn all the other gods and goddesses into Christian gods? The hateful ego and bigotry which drives such evil is insane.
rc> Do you mean this in a different sense than saying Clark Kent is
rc> Superman in disguise? After all, Gary, I don't see how
rc> "fallen angels" are any less imaginary than comic
rc> book characters.

Or are any different than any of the other gods he believes in. A pile of shit, by any other name, still smells so bad.

>>as for the big G,

rc> There are several, so your use of the definite article is misleading.

He's probably thinking of Lord Krishna. Or maybe Mithra. Or perhaps it's Geanishu or some other god who's name begins with a capital "G."

rc> The God of Islam, for example is one that will burn people
rc> in hell for believing in Jesus as an intercessor; and that's only
rc> one of "His" differences from the God of Hasidic Jews,
rc> which in turn differs dramatically from the God of Seventh-day
rc> Adventists and the God of Fundamentalist Christians and the
rc> God of Jehovah's Witnesses and the God of Mormons and . . .
rc> you get the picture, I trust.

They all worship other Christian gods, don't you know.

rc> There is no "the" big G. There are as many of them as
rc> there are people to imagine them. Allow me to put it simply, in
rc> a way that if you honestly take the time to consider, you will
rc> have to admit is the truth:
rc>
rc> All the big G's are indistinguishable from make believe.

Not to mention indistinguishable among fellow Christians. No two Christians have the same set of gods.

>> One topic to think about is the left and right handedness
>> of amino acids.

rc> I'd be happy to think about it, especially if you are willing
rc> to join along in the exercise -- actually thinking and questioning
rc> in order to learn more about how things are. Please continue.
rc> Talking about things that exist outside imagination is always
rc> meaningful to me.

I'd rather think about an interesting concept advanced in a popular fiction book. Suppose that normal physical processes create tau waves much like gravitational waves are created by gravitrinos. These waves manifest themselves according to the laws discovered and expressed by Maxwell and yield the time arrow that we see as entrophy.

Occasionally, due to Heisenberg's UP, a tau manifests backwards in time causing the time line to "reset." It does this by altering a minute event at the Quantum level which manifests in the macro in some way.

(Perhaps a sheet of paper fluttering in the breeze against a lamp post holds long enough for a cat to walk past uninterested in it in one time-line yet in another, a minute difference in the breeze flow against the crumpled paper causes the paper to fly off, causing the cat to chase it across a busy street resulting in automotive accidents and several deaths.)

The theory suggests that these resets occur all the time and that naturally humans remain unaware of it. In the book, a machine is created which sends messages to any time desired which alter the time line.

>>My prayer tonight..

Funny how these cultists like to publisize their unfortunate mental conditions, huh? Did you ask this clown any questions regarding his occult rituals?

rc> Hmm. If you are a Christian, Gary, why do you ignore outright
rc> the admonition (attributed to Jesus in your scriptures) that you
rc> should pray privately in your closet, and not make a show of it?

But how could he show everyone how pious he is if he were to follow his god's "laws?"

>>My Dear Father God:

There's that Alpha Male primate behavior thing again. An anthropologist might find this ritual interesting.

>>Thank You that Your mercy and longsuffering endure forever.

Illiterate. I think he's talking about Mithra.

>>Please manifest Your presence in Robert Curry's life in a
>>way and at a time that he will be able to receive and hold.

Better get a box of condoms, Robert. }:-}

>>This is your battle LORD, not mine. Thank You for helping
>>him to receive Your grace.

Translation: His insane lunatic rants were easilly debunked so now he wants to pretend that his "daddy" Alpha Male primate construct is going to beat you up. Amazing.

>>In the name of Jesus, Amen

Strange. Just how many gods does this cultist have?

rc> Supposing that this lord (or LORD, as you seem to make a big
rc> deal over capitalization or the lack thereof) loses its battle,
rc> and I live a humanistic life free from religion and without any
rc> belief in the existence of any god (or God, or GOD) outside
rc> human imagination, what does it really matter?

The fact that you retain your education and enlightenment means that his gods are weak and ineffectual. It means that reason, science, and thinking are far more powerful than this cultist's deity constructs.

rc> Why do you think I should bother with believing in fairy tales?
rc> If the battle that you imagine this god to be fighting is lost,
rc> who exactly is it that you believe will pay the consequences?

Look who already has.

rc> And what do you believe those consequences are for people
rc> who never believe in a god the way you currently do? For
rc> those who think that worrying about a god is not only silly,
rc> but also irrelevant to making life worth living?

That would be most people on Earth.

rc> I'd like to understand more about your thoughts on the issues
rc> raised above. Not the religious dogma -- that I am already
rc> aware of (in multiple varieties) already, having been a student
rc> of religion from a secular, phenomenological perspective.
rc> I am asking about you. It only seems fair, as you seem to be
rc> similarly concerned about me. Although I do not go around
rc> praying at people, I do ask questions.

You might ask the poor dear what his history has been. Has he ever, for instance, been allowed to sit down and actually read the Christian mythologies with an open and questioning mind?

rc> Now it's up to you to decide whether you will answer.

Good luck. Keep me informed if you get an honest answer, okay?