'Exit Counseling' Advice from Stacy Young
Scientology is spreading the word far and wide through its Office of Special
Affairs network that I have gone into the business of forcible deprogramming.
During the past two weeks, OSA operatives have literally stalked me across
the country. They have known my travel plans and have met my flights at
various airports. They've known where I was staying and have showed up at
my hotel rooms. They have harassed me while I was having lunch, and they have
interrupted me at dinner to take my photograph.
The amazing thing is what I actually did to cause all of this commotion: I sat
down with a young scientologist and told her about my own firsthand
experiences in scientology. I gave her some information. That's all I did.
After she had received the information, she decided she didn't want to be in
scientology any more. No force, no violence, no coercion. Just a free flow of
information. Freedom of choice.
Does this qualify as "deprogramming" at all, much less
"forcible deprogramming"? I certainly don't think so. Personally,
I would describe it as a conversation between two adults exercising their
rights of free speech and free thought. But let me tell you the whole story
of what has caused OSA to be so afraid of me, and then all of you -
scientologists and non-scientologists alike - can decide for yourselves.
I've just spent several days in New Orleans with a wonderful family, the
Wessels. Their 27-year-old daughter Lara was recruited into scientology
about a year ago, and her family watched with alarm as their loving,
vivacious daughter's life was gradually enveloped by scientology. She had
been an aspiring, very talented actress, but once she got into scientology
she dropped her acting career entirely. The family had been very close,
but Lara had become distant. All she would talk about was scientology.
Her family was afraid they were going to lose her forever.
Lara's father Dave has some friends who were peripherally aware of a
network of people who deal with the cult problem. He contacted several of
his friends, who put him in contact with Monica Pignotti, an exit counselor
in New York, and Paul Grosswald, a former scientologist from New York.
Monica invited me to participate because she knew I had recently helped
another young woman who had left scientology on her own but had been in
really bad shape emotionally and psychologically by the time she left. I
had flown to the east coast to spend some time with her, and I had been
able to help her and her family simply because I have so much information
about what goes on and how it works inside.
So, after a long conversation with Lara's father Dave, he asked me to
come down to New Orleans because he thought I might be able to contribute
some useful information which Lara could use to make a decision about what
she wanted to do.
I arrived Tuesday (before Monica and Paul) and spent the evening with all of
Lara's family - her parents, her sister and her family, her brother and his
family, her aunt and uncle. It was very heartwarming to see how much Lara
is loved by these people. She is so lucky to have a family that cares about
her as much as they do. They had many, many questions for me, and I answered
them as well as I could. Lara had been home for the New Orleans Jazzfest for
nearly two weeks, and the whole family had been on pins and needles, trying
not to antagonize her by showing any negative feelings about scientology. It
had been exhausting for all of them.
Lara had been vigorously trying to recruit her entire family into scientology
ever since she'd been home, and everyone had been as polite in their refusal
as possible. She wanted them all to take courses at the Baton Rouge mission,
and she was sure that once they did a course they would see why she was ready
to dedicate the next billion years as a member of scientology's elite Sea
Organization. As horrified as the family was, they had tried hard not to show
it. Instead, at every opportunity her brother Kris and her Aunt Shirley in
particular had asked Lara if she would be willing to speak to anyone about
another side of the scientology story. They told me Lara had said yes, she
would. The family all agreed Lara had been an independent thinker all her
life, and they hoped that that strength of hers would enable her to listen
to legitimate information, even if it was negative about scientology.
But now that the time had come, the family was extremely nervous and wanted
to make sure they knew what to do. The plan was for her brother Kris and
her Aunt Shirley, the two people she trusted the most, to take Lara out for
lunch the next day and tell her that her father had invited some people to
New Orleans who could give her some new information about scientology if
she was willing to listen to them. The family was particularly worried about
this step. What if she got angry and said no? What if it drove her further
into scientology and made the situation worse?
From what they had told me about Lara, it didn't sound like she would refuse.
She loved her family enough to be willing to listen to another side of the
story if it was clearly important to them that she do so. It also sounded as
if she might already have begun to have doubts about her involvement. I had
not yet met her, but I had the feeling she was quite strong-willed, with a
mind of her own. I thought there was a good chance that Lara would agree to
listen to what we had to say.
By the end of the first evening the family was somewhat reassured, having
realized that there was nothing mysterious in the least about what was
about to happen. If Lara agreed to talk to us, we would provide her with
information that she had not had access to as a scientologist, and with
this information Lara would be in a position to make an informed choice
about whether or not she wanted to continue her involvement in scientology.
If she refused to talk to us, we would leave. It was as simple as that.
But, I told them, I was confident that she would agree, perhaps out of a
combination of love for her family and curiosity about what kind of
information we might have.
The next morning Monica and Paul arrived and we all met at the hotel while
Lara met her brother and aunt for lunch. As the time approached for the
meeting, we all piled in the car and drove to Lara's parents' house, where,
we hoped, Lara would soon join us. We made small talk for a while, trying
not to be nervous, but we all jumped when the phone finally rang. It was
Lara's brother Kris. She had agreed to meet with us, and they were on their
way. We all breathed a sigh of relief. The first big step had been made!
Kris, Shirley and Lara arrived within a few minutes. Lara came right up to
me, shook my hand, and said cordially, "Hi, I'm Lara. Nice to meet
you." She did the same with Monica and Paul.
I asked her if she was nervous, and she said, "Yes, I guess I am a
little bit, but I'm interested in what you have to say. Let's get
started."
We began by introducing ourselves and telling Lara briefly about each of
our histories in scientology. Monica had been in for six years, and she
had been with Hubbard on the ship. Paul had only been in for six months,
but he had joined the Sea Org in New York, where Lara had also joined, so
they had had similar experiences and knew some of the same people. I had
been in for fifteen years, at the Advanced Organization in Los Angeles and
later in the Guardian's Office, Author Services, Inc., and the Office of
Special Affairs.
Monica and Paul told her about some of their experiences, and Lara's response
was pretty much to say, "OK, but that kind of thing can happen anywhere.
No organization is perfect. It doesn't change the fact that scientology
helps a lot of people."
I said, "That's true, and I used to feel exactly the same way. But I
experienced some things that finally forced me to re-evaluate my
relationship with scientology. I'd like to share those experiences with you
so that you have a clear picture of the kind of organization you're
involved in."
Lara shrugged. "OK," she said. "I'm willing to hear what you
have to say."
I spent about 45 minutes telling her about some of the experiences I had in
scientology. I told her that during all the years I was in scientology I
had always believed that if I could only move high enough up in the ranks
I would find scientology being practiced the way I thought it should be,
based on the policies I had read. But then I got all the way to the top of
the hierarchy, working directly with David Miscavige, and discovered that,
if anything, it was worse all the way at the top than it had been lower
down in the ranks. I told her about some of the things I saw Miscavige do
to staff, some of the things he ordered me to do to staff which I refused
to do, and I told her what happened that led me to refuse to work with him
at all, for which I was sent to the RPF.
When I was finished with my story, Lara decided she didn't want to be part
of a group in which people were abused the way I was, and the way other
people were that I described. That was literally all that happened. She
was given some information that she had not had previously. Monica and
Paul also gave her information, not only about their own experiences in
scientology but also about mind control and how it works. And that was
the extent of what happened that caused Lara Wessel to decide she no longer
wanted to be a scientologist.
Lara made her decision on Wednesday evening, May 6, the very first day we
talked to her. The next day, Thursday, we were all over at her sister's
house watching some videos of shows about scientology and mind control
when her father arrived with the news that two scientologists had showed up
at his house looking for Lara. He told them she had gone out of town for a
few days, thinking that would cause them to go away. Of course, as we would
soon find out, this just fueled their paranoia that Lara was being
"forcibly deprogrammed."
Thursday evening Lara's aunt surprised us all with tickets to the New
Orleans symphony. The music was wonderful and we all enjoyed ourselves
immensely, particularly Lara, who commented on how happy she was to have
her life back. After the program we were supposed to meet Lara's brother
and his wife for dinner. But when Lara called him he told her an incredible
story.
The New Orleans police and an ambulance had arrived at their parents' house,
all lights flashing. The police had received an anonymous phone call that
someone was committing suicide inside the house. No one was home (since we
were all at the symphony) so the police gained entry to the house and
searched it. Finding no one, they finally left.
We had warned the Wessels that scientology would not believe Lara had
decided on her own to leave scientology, that they would believe she had
been coerced or forced in some way to leave. But even we were flabbergasted
that scientology was going this far. Lara and her father went down to the
police station and both made statements about what was happening. Lara
made it clear in her statement that she had spoken to us of her own free
will, that she had not been coerced in any way, and that she had decided
to leave scientology based purely on the information she had received.
We all thought that would be the end of it, but we were wrong. The next
night, Friday night, Monica, Paul and I headed back to our hotel and Lara
and her parents all went to bed by 10:30. At about 11:30 Lara was awakened
by flashing lights shining through her bedroom window and the doorbell
ringing repeatedly. She was afraid it was an OSA helicopter coming to get
her and she ran upstairs to her parents' room for protection. She woke her
father, who went downstairs and discovered several police officers at the
front door.
The police said they had received an anonymous call that someone was being
held against their will in the house and they wanted to come in and check
it out. Lara's father said they were welcome to come in but said he thought
he knew what this was all about and explained to them about what had been
happening with Lara and scientology. Then he called Lara, who came upstairs
in her pajamas and told the police she was not being held against her will,
she loved her parents and was very glad they had helped her get out of
scientology. The police by now were angry about being manipulated by
scientology, and one of the officers told Lara's father that if he had any
more trouble from scientology he would see that the offenders were arrested.
By now the entire Wessel family was astonished and alarmed at what
scientology was doing. Certainly Lara was seeing a side of scientology
that she had never seen before. We explained to them that it is literally
impossible for a scientologist to accept the fact that someone might make
an informed choice to leave scientology. A scientologist firmly believes
that the only way someone in Lara's position would leave scientology would
be if they were forced to do so by being handcuffed, gagged and held against
their will. So these people who were orchestrating all of these incidents
truly believed they were trying to help Lara escape from the clutches of
evil forcible deprogrammers. The family just shook their heads in amazement.
Saturday Monica and Paul left, and Lara and I had a relaxing day. We had
lunch at the House of Blues and she showed me a little bit of New Orleans.
Then we headed back to my hotel room so she could watch a couple of videos
that she hadn't had a chance to see yet. About 8:30 that night there was
a loud knocking at my hotel room door. I opened it and there stood two
heavy-set women, looking very serious. One of them pushed past me and
elbowed her way through the doorway, saying, "We're here to see Lara
Wessel. Where is she?"
Lara and I looked at each other in disbelief. More scientologists! Not
wanting to be rude, I invited the women into the room and introduced Lara
and myself. The two women looked surprised at my invitation but they came
into the room, obviously uncomfortable. I asked them their names.
"Mary," the dark-haired woman said. "Tracy," said the
blond one. "No last names?" I asked. Tracy said, "You don't
need to know our last names."
I invited them to sit down on the bed, which they did, and we all sat around
chatting for quite a long time. Lara told them what had happened - that she
had gotten information about scientology that she hadn't had before and
based on that information, she had decided she would rather not be involved
in it. This was completely unacceptable to Mary and Tracy. Didn't Lara
realize that everything someone like me would tell her was a lie? Lara told
them she didn't think any of us had lied to her, and she urged them to get
the same information themselves. "I don't want to hear her lies,"
Tracy said in disgust.
I was able to find out that they were both public scientologists on lines
at the Baton Rouge Mission. I explained to them that at their echelon they
wouldn't know about the kinds of experiences I had at the upper echelons
of scientology management, and that much of what I had seen had caused me
to realize scientology was not what I had thought it was.
Tracy turned to Lara and, incredibly, said, "But look, what if you
were a Catholic and you found out the Pope was banging some nun at a
convent? That wouldn't keep you from being a devout Catholic and having
the benefits of Catholicism, would it? Well, it doesn't matter what's
going on in scientology management. You can still have wins and get up the
Bridge to Total Freedom. What difference does it make to you and your life
what management is doing?"
Lara and I were both speechless for a moment at this candid outburst. I
recovered first and said, "Tracy, as a devout Catholic, wouldn't you
feel some responsibility for at least making it known to the Pope that you
didn't approve of his conduct? Wouldn't you feel it was awfully hypocritical
of the Pope to bang this nun while insisting that all the Catholics in the
world respect the sanctity of marriage? I personally felt that if the
leadership of scientology was as corrupt as I discovered them to be, I
couldn't condone their behavior by continuing to be a scientologist."
Tracy obviously felt she had made a blunder with her analogy of the Pope
and the nun. She tried to change the subject back to my lack of credibility,
but Lara interrupted her.
"I don't think you realize," Lara said, "that you aren't
the only ones who have been to see me and my family." She detailed
all of the events of the past several days, including the police and the
flashing lights, the sirens, being awakened at nearly midnight, how it had
really frightened her and her family. "At this point I have to tell
you that you're inadvertently involving yourselves in a pattern of
harassment and invasion of my and my family's privacy."
At this the two women glanced at each other uneasily, and then they both
stood up.
"It was very kind of you to invite us into your room," Tracy
said. "I think it's time for us to be going now."
Mary asked if we would be willing to watch a video with their side of the
story. We both said absolutely, we would watch it. She said she'd get it
to us, and then they left.
The next morning it was time to say goodbye. It was a sad parting, because
Lara and I had gotten to be good friends. But we promised to get together
again soon.
A production crew for a Swedish TV station had asked me to meet them in
Washington, D.C., for an interview, so I caught a plane to D.C. The New
Orleans trip had been emotionally draining for me. Settling into my seat
on the plane, I was suddenly exhausted. I looked forward to a relaxing
evening at my hotel.
But this was not to be. When I got off the plane in D.C., I saw Sylvia
Stanard from OSA's D.C. Office of Public Affairs walking toward me. Sylvia
and I have known each other since the late 1970s.
"Sylvia!" I said as she approached me. "What are you doing
meeting me at the airport?"
"Well," she replied, "I hear you're in the business of
forcible deprogrammings now, Stacy. I just want to make sure you aren't
planning to kidnap any of my staff."
I could see that she was dead serious, and I couldn't believe it.
"What are you doing in D.C. if you're not here to deprogram
someone?" she asked me. I told her I was there to be interviewed for
Swedish TV, but she didn't believe me.
"Why would they want to interview you? You don't know anything about the
situation in Sweden," she said, eyeing me skeptically. "No, that's
not what you're here for."
I tried to tell her that all I had done in New Orleans was to give Lara
information with which she then made her own decision. But it soon became
clear to me that Sylvia was not going to believe me no matter what I said.
In her mind, I was now a forcible deprogrammer and that was that.
Then she changed the subject. She wanted to know what happened that got me
out of scientology, so I invited her to ride with me to my hotel. I told
her the whole story of Vaughn getting beaten up by Norman Starkey, and how
Marion Dendiu, then the Org Officer at ASI, had taken Vaughn to her office
and assigned him lower conditions for upsetting Norman so badly that he
lost his temper.
But Sylvia clearly thought I was lying to her. By the time we got to my hotel
room she was back to worrying that I was going to kidnap her staff and
deprogram them.
"Stacy," she said, "I want you to look me straight in the
eye and promise me that you won't kidnap anyone while you're here."
I got so exasperated with her that I called Lara and asked her to tell Sylvia
herself what had happened in New Orleans. Sylvia and Lara chatted for about
fifteen minutes, while I unpacked my suitcase. Sylvia seemed surprised that
I didn't mind her talking to Lara, but my feeling was, why not? Maybe
something either Lara or I said to Sylvia might get through to her and get
her thinking. There is always that hope.
Sylvia and I parted cordially that evening, and Sylvia said she'd like to
get together with me while I was in D.C. I said that sounded fine. But as
it turned out, it was not to be.
The next day I met Joachim and Phillip, the Swedish TV crew. They filmed an
interview with me in the lobby of the Renaissance Hotel, and afterwards we
sat in the hotel restaurant for lunch. Soon after we ordered, Sue Taylor
and Alex Jones from OSA DC appeared at our table and began harassing us.
Phillip picked up his camera and began filming the whole thing, of course. I
was amazed that Sue was so rude to Joachim even though she knew she was being
filmed and that it would appear on national television in Sweden.
We finally persuaded them to leave so we could eat lunch, but ten minutes
later Sue, Alex and Sylvia all came back to our table. They were totally in
our face and it was impossible to eat our lunch. I excused myself and went
and asked hotel security to escort them out as they were harassing us. I
returned to the table and sat down, and pretty soon security arrived and
said quietly to Sue Taylor, "If you don't leave immediately on your
own, I will have to help you leave," whereupon they all filed out of
the hotel.
Bob Minton had to come down to D.C. on other business, and I had never
actually met Arnie Lerma in person, so Bob took us both out on Tuesday
evening for a nice dinner so we could finally meet each other. We were
having a wonderful time when suddenly Matt Baraschi, one of OSA's more
boorish operatives, appeared at our table and began snapping photos of us.
It was incredibly offensive. I got up and convinced Matt to sit down next
to Bob so I could take their photo together. He handed me his camera, and
I immediately handed it to the maitre d', who turned around and took it
into the kitchen to dispose of it. Matt jumped up and ran after him into
the kitchen, creating an unbelievable scene in the restaurant. He soon
emerged with his camera and stormed out, after accusing me of theft.
Finally my trip was at an end. All of the confrontation with the
scientologists had been exhausting for me. I fell asleep as soon as the
plane took off and didn't wake up until the pilot announced we were about
to land in Seattle. I was really looking forward to getting home and
relaxing. I walked off the plane and into the terminal. The first person
I saw was Vaughn, and the next thing I knew Ann Ruble, the DSA Seattle,
was coming between Vaughn and me so that it was impossible for me to say
hello to him. She had a man with her named Larry something -- I missed his
last name. I guess I shouldn't have been surprised, but I was. I couldn't
believe they were there. Now I realized that I was virtually being stalked
all the way across the country. They knew what flights I was on; they knew
what hotels I was staying at, even what hotel rooms. It was unnerving to
realize I was being watched so closely by these people.
"Stacy," Ann said, "Sylvia called me and said you promised
her you would call her and let her know before you deprogrammed any of her
staff in D.C. I just want you to promise me the same thing here in
Seattle."
These people had caught Vaughn off guard. He hadn't realized they were
scientologists at first, but when he did, it made him furious. He wanted
to call airport security and have them escorted out. I convinced him to
let me speak to Ann for a few minutes but she was actually quite rude
and was clearly there only to harass me and try to frighten me.
She said, "Stacy, you know who Rick Ross is, don't you? You don't
want the same thing to happen to you here in Washington, do you?"
Vaughn heard this and asked her if she was the one who supervised the
leafleting of the town of Vashon with hate literature about us, or if
she was the one who ordered our dog kidnapped and beaten almost to death.
She denied any knowledge of those things, and even denied knowing who
private investigator David Lee is.
In fact, it is possible that she really hasn't been in charge the
harassment we have been subjected to, and that she hasn't been kept
informed other than what she has read in the local newspaper. It has
probably all been run directly from Los Angeles. I don't think Ann would
have the stomach for the dirty tricks they've run on us, certainly I don't
think she would condone torturing our dog Mac. She is basically a caring
person who thinks she is helping people by her involvement in scientology.
She is just a dupe.
Lara Wessel, in the meantime, is thrilled to have her life back. She is
looking forward to getting her acting career back on track. She is happy
to be able to have all of her old friends back. She is educating herself
about mind control so she won't ever be taken in again. She is greatly
relieved to be in control of her own thoughts again.
After this experience it is more clear to me than ever that freedom of
speech and freedom of thought are the mortal enemies of totalitarianism.
No wonder scientology is out to destroy the Internet. No totalitarian
system of government can survive the free flow of information. No wonder
scientology is so afraid that one of their members might sit down and have
a conversation with me. God forbid a scientologist gains access to
information that is not under the control of the organization. God forbid
scientologists begin to exercise their inalienable rights of free speech,
free thought and free association.
I hope I have many more opportunities to sit and talk with scientologists. I
would be more than happy to share my experiences and insights with any
scientologist who is interested in what I have to say. I can be reached
at 206-463-6809. Feel free to call any time of the day or night.
Stacy Young
Further facts
about this criminal empire may be found at
Operation Clambake and FACTNet.
One less scientologist in the world
Tue, 19 May 1998 21:08:28 GMT
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