From: Sushama123 <Sushama123@aol.com>
Mr. frederic, I have no respect for your that you are attacking a man who
preaches the Gospel of Jesus Christ. You better take this web site off
before the wrath of God strike you and your family. I am ashamed of you
bloody fool. Have you ever done any kind of sin in your life to judge
others? You should stop doing it.
From: "Fredric L. Rice" <frice@raids.org>
At 21:30 4/19/98 EDT, Sushama123 wrote:
> Mr. frederic,
Normally one would either preface a greeting with one's first name or, if
one wishes to employ the title "Mister," do so with one's last
name. Such examples of this would be "Fred," or "Mr.
Rice."
I mention it in the hopes that you learn to compose a message with some
degree of literacy so that in the future you might benefit from not exposing
yourself as uneducated and illiterate.
> I have no respect for your that you are attacking a man who
Curiously you "forgot" to mention who this "man" is and
what this "gospel" is. You also seem to have forgotten to provide
any specifics to back up your allegations. I suppose you did so because you
realize that doing so would result in a lengthy series of embarrassing and
quite painful debunkings -- not to mention unfortunate exposures to the truth.
> You better take this web site off before
My, do you worship some evil gods, don't you?
Your pathetic threats are wasted upon your intellectual superiors, you know.
I can see that you are in abject terror of your gods and I understand how your
masters work hard to instill and maintain such fear. Yet lacking any belief
in any of the gods and goddesses, such pathetic threats are, I can assure you,
quite silly.
> I am ashamed of you bloody fool.
Of course you are. That's your indoctrination kicking in. Sound judgement,
however, would take care of that unfortunate problem. The difficulty stems
from the fact that your masters don't allow any judgement in their followers.
> Have you ever done any kind of sin in your life to judge others?
Since "sin" is a religious notion not evidenced in reality, I --
indeed all atheists and non-Christians who recognize the absurdity of the
notion -- are incapable of "sin." "Sin" is a fictional
disease sold to the gullible so that a fictional "cure" may also
be sold to them. As I'm an atheist, I don't fall for such obvious scams.
> You should stop doing it.
Traditionally, the Christian finds himself having to do the job jimself since
his gods don't seem able to. What are you going to do, dear Christian? Will
it be a shotgun in the back of the neck this time? Or will it be an AK-47 at
the school yard to show how your "god's wrath punishes the guilty?"
How will your pathetic threats be handled when you realize that your gods
are not performing on schedule?
From: Jessica <evilsizor@mail4.uts.ohio-state.edu>, 2@osu.edu
I am currently a college student and certainly don't consider myself to be
uneducated, nor a cult follower. Your commentary on the letters sent to you
about this "Swaggart scandal" is ridiculous. Have you checked your
knowledge of the Christian faith lately? You seem to have only marginal
knowledge of the faith, yet you insist on denouncing that faith with no
foundation. None of us claim that Jimmy Swaggart can save us or any human
for that matter. We don't worship humans nor do we assume Swaggart's words
are the absolute authority. You have grossly overestimated this situation.
Jimmy Swaggart is merely a man who is fulfilling God's call on his life. So
what if he happens to be a televangelist? Why is that so important to you?
Would you publicly insult the ministry of a church usher who's name you
don't even know in such a situation? Besides, whether or not any of these
accusations are true is none of your business nor is it any of mine. We all
sin. We are all the same in the eyes of God. We can not live our lives in
perpetual judgement of others. What would that accomplish anyway? What
does your page accomplish? It communicates more effectively your own
ignorance and arrogance rather than anyone's wrong-doing. I truly pray that
you accept God's love into your life before it's too late.
Jessica F Evilsizor
From: "waymon g. waller" <wwaller@tilc.com>
Dear Mr. Rice,
From: mawkettle@webtv.net (Jackie Moreau)
Glory hallelujah! I agree with you 100%. How can people continue to
let someone like Jimmy Swaggart lead them astray even after he has been
revealed as a hypocrite. I can't and will not ever understand their
reasoning.
Please continue to expose him for the person that he really is.
From: "Fredric L. Rice" <frice@raids.org>
At 21:28 5/3/98 -0700, waymon g. waller wrote:
ww> Dear Mr. Rice,
Please call me Fred.
ww> The Bible says that Satan will go to and fro seeking whom he may devour.
Yes, and the Christian mythologies also claim that bats are birds, that
mustard seeds grow into trees, that there was a world-wide global flood,
that dead people walk and donkeys and snakes talk, that the value of Pi
is 3.0, and no end of utter nonsense.
And your point was what, exactly? It's well known that the mythologies were
not intended to be believed. Most rational people would to make it a guide
to living rather than fall down and worship the silly thing.
ww> If Jimmy Swaggart is doing wrong then you should be praying for him
Thinking at people doesn't do anything. The only thing which could help the
poor man would be a return to academia and the achievement of a good education.
As for "bringing him down," no one can bring a man down but that
man himself. When Swaggart gets caught soliciting sex and engaging in sex
with prostitutes, he's already done his bit. Nobody need do any more.
Now how could you come to the mistaken conclusion that other people are in
any way capable of bringing others "down?" More to the point, how
could you come to the conclusion that documenting the mans obvious frauds and
lies is in some way "bringing" him down?
ww> Another quote from God's Holy word
That's strange. Do you have any evidence for these gods of yours? Until
you can find some evidence for gods, it would be a mistake to start pretending
they have words.
First provide evidence that there are gods and then you may start providing
evidence that they left "words."
ww> says, Judge not that you be not judged.
That's in the Christian mythologies, silly, not the words of any gods.
In any event, let's not pretend that the fraud has been judged by anyone other
than his own actions, shall we? I don't know about you but I find the fact
that the man is a pedophile to be rather distressing, don't you?
ww> Before I close I would like to ask you a question.
Please feel free to ask as many questions as you like. Understand that I
expect to have answers to any questions I might ask as well.
ww> When your time comes and you stand before God, will he say, Well done
What a freakish question. Well, to begin with perhaps you don't understand
what it means to be dead. The only "after" is a return to ambient
temp. and the decomposition of the body. It's pretty silly to try to pretend
that you get to live just because you mistakenly believed in deity constructs.
What you should be asking yourself is why you fear death and feel you need
to try to threaten your intellectual superiors with such nonsense. I can
assure you that I neither fear my own death nor do I consider such idiotic
threats to be at all alarming.
From: "Fredric L. Rice" <frice@raids.org>
rc> (and now it's time for . . . another perspective)
ac> Mr. Know it all,
rc> Say, wasn't he a character on the Rocky and Bullwinkle Show?
<laughing> I can't help but think fondly of Master Cylinder on Felix
The Cat. And Mr. Peabody and his boy Sherman. That naturally seques to
George of the Jungle and "I'll save you Nell!" and all the other idiot
shows in the same venue.
ac> Is there an issue of tolerance around the world??
rc> More to the point, is there some way of expressing your intent just
I decided to address his questions from the most likely meaning he was
attempting to express. There is in fact a great deal of intolerance in the
world and, as I pointed out to the poor fellow, it seems to nearly be at
the hands of the deity-oriented religious among us.
ac> How is it that the message of the gospel of Jesus Christ irritates
I wonder where this guy found this "gospel of Jesus Christ" he's
ranting about. The rest of the world doesn't seem to know anything about it.
rc> Good question, even though you did forget the question mark
It was a rhetorical question, you see. At least this one isn't dropping
a comma into his "sentences" between every two or three words.
That's quite an improvement over some of the illiterate rants we receive.
rc> Fred must be one of those strange people who considers lying
Yeah, call it a weakness. I dislike pedophiles, frauds, cheats, and confidence
men who bilk the ignorant and the gullible. Naturally I would be more than
willing to remain silent were such frauds bilking adults. Sadly, however,
what the likes of Swaggart does drags people's innocent children into his evil.
How many children go hungry or won't acquire a quality education because
Swaggart convinced their parents that he needed their money more?
Swaggart used to do a "faith healing" act. There's no possible way
to find out how many children died because of such greed.
ac> I know that all people love challenges so here is my challenge
rc> Done. The result is exactly the same as if every god is
And it's also exactly the same when thinking at pixies and fairies to
"reveal themselves." Amazing how the non-existant and the
make-believe look alike, huh?
ac> So lighten up a little and watch God move
rc> A common myth -- something like Santa Claus for adults.
Only without the body count.
ac> Serving People,
Such as prostitutes and their 7-year-old daughters.
From: SCHA <SCHA@aol.com>
I applaud your efforts to expose people like Jimmy Swaggart. While I do
believe there may be a God , I don't necessarily believe that "It"
(God) is vengeful and full of wrath. If that were the case , Jimmy Saggart
and others like him would be struck blind, lose all forms of bodily control,
and have no one there to help them get along. Though all you write may be
true, the brainwashed will never see it for if you oppose Jimmy Swaggart -
then you oppose God. If you oppose God, then you must be a child of the
devil. Therefore, anything you say has no merit. Ignorance is truly bliss.
More power to you!
From: Dave Vust <dvust@sk.sympatico.ca>
I'm not sure where you get your (mis)information. Leave it alone
already, it's getting real old. Personally, I hope someone eventually
sues you.
From: "Fredric L. Rice" <frice@raids.org>
At 00:21 7/23/98 -0500, Skeeve wrote:
s> Because he's an asshole? As good a reason as any.
Can you believe the guy is _still_ on cable television? How amazing.
Even after getting caught with his finger stuck up a prostitute outside
of the "No Tell Hotel" his followers _still_ continue to give him money
to provide "spiritual and moral enlightenment and guidance." Amazing!
I mean, is there a fucking shrink in the church?!
s> I read with much amusement your witty banter with the Swaggart
<chuckle> Thanks. Yes, well, um... we _do_ get E-Mail from a number
of... oh, I'm not sure how I could describe defenders of Jimmy Swaggart
accurately. It's a phenomena which is difficult to describe.
s> You mention a web page detailing the perverted antics of Swaggart,
I've got a lot of work to do and I've asked someone else to research the
available data on some of the more notables. Finding newspaper articles
on freakish extremes advocated by Marian "Pat" Robertson and Oral Roberts,
Peter Popoff, and good ole' Jimmy Bakker was _easy_. Putting it all
together in web pages which don't contain anything that might be in the
least bit untrue or inaccurate takes a lot of time. In many cases when
I get on the telephone with a reporter who filed a story to verify that
the article I have is accurate, the reporter has moved to a different
agency or otherwise left. I've got literally hundreds of newspaper
articles on the various slime balls going back to the early 1970's and I
think it's best that I carefully pick through them before posting them.
s> I am fixing to read the material on the Restored Church of the Star
Yes, I'm ordained by the Universal Life Church. In fact today I was asked
by a colleague of mine if I would provide to him samples of the weddings
that I have outlined since he wants to get married again. Not wanting a
traditional wedding (because his family's church doesn't approve of him
marrying a prostitute from Holland) he's asked me what kind of wedding I
would perform.
I assured him that the jokes about having to wear goat leggings is just
that: a joke. I'll be working up a marriage outline and sending a copy
to him in a couple of days to see if it sounds like it's acceptable. If
he's agreed and his wife agrees, I will perform the ritual and file the
papers with the State of California.
If you're interested in how that works, let me know. There is a web site
that you can access which gives all kind of information on how to become
an ordained minister. I caution, though, that it's a serious undertaking
because something like performing a wedding or planting someone who's
died is serious stuff. While the Restored Church of the Star Goat may be
done with fun and amusement, I know when it's time to set aside nonsense
and help out a couple who's own ministers have abandoned them.
Hell, if you or anyone else here at The Skeptic Tank are interested, let
me know and I'll forward a copy of the wedding outline I'll plan. I've
already got most of it typed-up and just need to clean it up and make it
a bit longer.
s> I have a couple of quick questions. What is the Church position
I think that if we were to poll everyone who's joined the Restored Church,
more than half would consider themselves agnostics. Few -- if any -- would
consider themselves strong atheists; that is, people who state that there
are no gods. If I recall the positions of everyone who's joined, they
merely accept that there's simply no evidence for or against the existence
of gods and that's okay with me and all the other members.
Also, there is a Deist who's a member. I think he might have actually
changed his mind somewhat and is an agnostic but I can't be sure. (I'll
have to ask Steve Q. about that.)
Also, my brother is a Wiccan who has the Goddess Lilith.
What I think makes a good Goatee is someone who understands the symbology
that Star Goat represents. Someone who believes that their god exists
while all others are some how evil frauds doesn't fit my ideal of what a
Goatee should be. I don't want the intolerant and badly closed-minded
joining up. I want to see people who are willing to admit that there
might be gods; people who admit that evidence is lacking but would be
nice; people who -- if they have god beliefs -- are not so stuffy as to
proclaim they have the "right" gods and that everybody else is some how
punishable for not believing.
For me -- and I believe other members -- Star Goat represents the symbol
of tolerance and open-mindedness for non-destructive, healthy religious
ideals. If we must have a god, why not have a god that doesn't reflect
the petty bigotries and prejudiced of humanity? Since humanity seems
destined to have gods for quite a few more years, why not create gods that
are better than the ones we currently have? Why not learn from the evils
that plague us and build tools -- like Star Goat -- which can't be turned
into weapons to beat our brothers and sisters over the head with?
My feelings about Star Goat are difficult to pin down, exactly. I suppose
that if I needed a god, I would create one rather like Star Goat: Mill
around the garden looking for tasty flowers and tree bark to eat and leave
humanity alone. When the religious dictate to humanity what the gods
want and what the gods don't want, tyranny and inhuman atrocity are the
norm. Star Goat loves us by leaving us the fuck alone. Science, truth,
and reason will eventually make humanity the equal to the gods at which
time perhaps we can join Star Goat, eating the flowers, and stripping the
trees in Paradise of their tasty bark.
From: Matthew J Gilling <mjg83@student.canterbury.ac.nz>
Hi,
I just read your Jimmy Swaggart article. Personally I dont knowmuch
about what that man has done, and ultimately it makes no difference to
me. Jesus, is still a real person. Just because some guy is preaching
one thing and doing another means only that he is wrong and totally off
track, they are called hypocrits. They have been around a long time. But
Jesus IS perfect. And He loves you! And He won't ever let you down.
People always will.
See the thing is, that just because Jimmy Swaggart has mucked up,
doesn't give you an excuse to avoid God. I challenge you to ask God
yourself ( no other people required) and give it a serious go. He will
prove Himself to you.
Matthew Gilling
Return to The Skeptic Tank's main Index page.
To: frice@raids.org
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 21:30:37 EDT
Subject: Mr. Frederick yo are heading to Hell
To: Sushama123 <Sushama123@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 06:52:11 -0700
Subject: Re: Mr. Frederick yo are heading to Hell
> preaches the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
> the wrath of God strike you and your family.
To: frice@raids.org
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 22:42:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Jimmy Swaggart
The Ohio State University
(History/Pre-Law Major)
To: frice@raids.org
Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 21:28:38 -0700
Subject: Jimmy Swaggart
The Bible says that Satan will go to and fro seeking whom he may devour.
If Jimmy Swaggart is doing wrong then you should be praying for him
instead of trying to bring him down. Another quote from God's Holy word
says, Judge not that you be not judged. Before I close I would like to
ask you a question. When your time comes and you stand before God, will
he say, Well done thy good and faithful servent enter into the kingdom
of heaven or will he say, Depart from me you worker of iniquity I never
new you?
To: frice@raids.org
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 21:47:59 -0500
Subject: Jimmy Swaggart
To: wwaller@tilc.com
Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 20:07:37 -0700
Subject: Re: Jimmy Swaggart
ww> instead of trying to bring him down.
ww> thy good and faithful servent enter into the kingdom of heaven or
ww> will he say, Depart from me you worker of iniquity I never new you?
To: Robert Curry <curry@gte.net>,Alex Crays <crays@northcoast.com>
Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 20:26:25 -0700
Subject: Re: Resentment-filled rant
ac> Is there a difference between right and wrong??
rc> a little more clearly here? I for one have no idea what set this off,
rc> but I would gladly help answer your concerns if only I had a better
rc> grasp of what it is, specifically, that's bothering you.
ac> you so much to the point that you have gone to the time and
ac> expense to try to "debunk" the spiritual leaders of
ac> our day.
rc> at the end (or perhaps ran out due to doubling up on them earlier
rc> in the message).
rc> and the perpetuation of nonsense by preachers and other religious
rc> figures to be just as reprehensible as the same hypocritical actions
rc> and spread of misinformation would be if committed by anyone
rc> else.
ac> to you. The next time you are alone, perhaps now, ask God to
ac> reveal himself to you.
rc> make believe. Do you have any other experiments to suggest?
ac> in your life he loves you very much.
To: frice@raids.org
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 23:09:16 EDT
Subject: Swaggart
To: frice@raids.org
Subject: Jimmy Swaggart
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 20:49:56 -0600
To: Skeeve <avalon@infohwy.com>
Subject: Re: How can you pick on that poor Jimmy Swaggart?
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 23:18:39 -0700
s> defenders (at least your half was witty).
s> Bakker, et al. What is the URL of this page, if it's still up?
s> Goat, of which you are an ordained (?) reverend.
s> on agnosticism? Are agnostics welcome in TRCOTSG? Keep up the Good Work!
To: frice@raids.org
Subject: Stuff
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 10:15:49 +0000
Feel free to post this. Infact I dare you! : )
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