The text offered below is done so as an exposure of what these people are about, how they think, what motivates them, and as a good example of how they deal with those who would suggest a little sanity and reason.

This individual is a good one to pick for exposure as he hasn't learned to keep his agenda secret, nor has he learned to discern who his audience is and tailor his expressions and statements accordingly. Most Right Wing religious extremists learn to hide their agenda and tailor what they are willing to expose to an audience quickly and detailed searches of their histories must be performed to disclose the methodology of the deception (this is the so-called "stealth" methodology that right- wing religious zealots have adopted in the 1980's -- a primary example is the subversion of public school boards to seek the advancement of Christian mythology at the expense of science.)

If you are disgusted by hate, homophobic bigotry, or are a Christian who doesn't like to see your gods beshitted and befouled by fellow Christians, you might give the following text a miss. Fair warning.

I offer the text of various dialogs with suitable commentary after the fact. After reviewing these messages, check out Rich Allen's web site for further exposures of fundamentalist evils direct from the horses' mouth (the link is provided in the previous page.) For coverage of the more refined Right Wing extremists, check out the Institute for First Amendment Studies link also offered on the previous page.

Note that I haven't changed his spelling or anything of his text.

Fredric Rice
It was my mistake. When I signed into your system I wasn't informed of pending messages. It was only after I downloaded all new messages and then grepped them for messages to me did I see that you had, indeed, responded somewhat.

Rich Allen
If you held the same values as me I think I would do that.

Fredric Rice
Yes, I do hold the ethical and moral high ground, I noticed. I don't demonize innocent people just because they're gay, for instance.

Rich Allen
However seeing how your bbs is more on the evil side and mine is on the good I think it would be rather foolish.

Fredric Rice
Is that what Christian cultists are calling the hurtful truth these days? "Evil?" <-snort-> Discussing the origins of the Christian cult is evil, is it? You, as a cultist, should be jumping at the chance to learn more about what you profess to believe in. Ignorance is fine. Willful ignorance, however, is not.

Come on, Rich. Surely you can't deny your users and yourself a chance to "correct" some of the many "sadly mistaken" and undeniable facts about Christianity that are disclosed in the HolySmoke forum. Surely you can't wish to "protect" your users from having to defend their beliefs.

Let's go ahead and link your system into the international HolySmoke forum. You'll be glad you did, honest.

Rich Allen
Although I call you my friend it is surprising, like you say, that we dont agree on anything! ahahhaha

Fredric Rice
It is a grand presumption to consider or call me a friend. Having high standards, I would _never_ choose to befriend someone who points at innocent people and demonize them to the point where those they hate are considered sub-human. That's Nazi Germany all over again, Rich.

No offense, you understand, but my standards are higher than that.

Rich Allen
But my goal is to spread America.zip across the world and if I get paid for this service I make no apologies.

    AMERICA.ZIP is a ranting tirade produced by Rich Allen which does
    a good job of enumerating all the evils that Fundamentalist
    Christians wish to impose upon the innocent.  Though it is an
    illiterate and meandering run-on sentence, it still provides a
    useful Manifesto of the Radical Religious Right.

Fredric Rice
I am going to help you spread AMERICA.ZIP across the United States, Canada, Mexico, Australia, Germany, and Ireland. Since it is an illiterate, disjointed, badly-spelled, ranting missive, it can't help but show people what Christianity can do to an otherwise healthy human being.

I've already advertised the availability of AMERICA.ZIP in the international HolySmoke family educational forum and I have also offered to FAX copies of the illiterate rant to anyone in the academic community which delves into human psychology. Though it has all been said and debunked a thousand times before, yours is probably one of the worse and thus fits the drive to help educate people about destructive religions.

Believe me. I will help you spread AMERICA.ZIP far and wide.

Rich Allen
I challenge you to read the bible front to cover.

    Most Fundamentalist Christians believe that those who understand
    the origins of the Christian mythologies have never read it.  It
    is ironic that most Fundamentalists skip through and extract what
    they will believe and what they will not while exhorting their
    intellectual superiors to read the mythologies cover to cover.

Fredric Rice
I have read the classical Christian mythologies from cover to cover dozens of times. I've also read the Jewish Toldoth and Talmud and learned the origins of the contemporary myths. And, of course, I've read the commentary of scholars of the Dead Sea Scrolls. I even have read fragments of previous versions of the classical, contemporary version.

I would wager that I know the origins of the myths far better than you do. I'm not constrained against learning the truth about them whereas you, having invested a great deal in the myths, are.

Rich Allen
It is impossible to do it without knowing it is not truth.

Fredric Rice
Since you know it's not the truth, why do you still persist in believing the lie?

Rich Allen
Do not hate the truth.

Fredric Rice
Do not run from the truth, Rich. You only fool youself.

Rich Allen
I confess to you that I once was an agnostic and a friend, a dear friend, who was more interested in truth than making friends told me to do this.. I did and he proved me wrong. Let me prove you wrong.

Fredric Rice
I have read the myths a great many times. I have volumes of reviews about the dates and authorship as well as the many revisions, scientific errors, contradictions, and logical fallacies in the myths.

Anyone who can read the mythologies and still believe in them has a fundamental difficulty in critical thinking, Rich.

~*~ New Message ~*~

Fredric Rice
Greetings, Rich!

There are about 40 messages waiting for you on my system at (626) 335-9601. People from around the world have read some of your outrageous claims and are asking you for further information and clarification.

    I took all of Rich Allen's messages and forwarded them to the
    HolySmoke forum in FidoNet which, not surprising, eventually
    elicited over 120 messages, all for Rich Allen.

Won't you please take the time to download your mail and respond to each of them? Dozens of people from around the world have taken the time and effort to listen to you, you should at least reciprocate and respond.

It could be a good chance to win over some heathens. In fact, let's go ahead and link your system into the international HolySmoke forum; that would be a good way to spread yourself, don't you think?

~*~ New Message ~*~

Rich Allen
You are correct in saying I am filled with hatred.

Fredric Rice
Yes, now let's see you justify it with religion:

Rich Allen
Although I am not 100% filled with it I am filled with hatred towards evil.

Fredric Rice
And yet you belong to the single most evil religion as yet created by men. How do you justify that contradiction? Christianity is evil even by its own low standards.

Rich Allen
The evil that you push.

    Interestingly enough, Rich Allen first contacted me to ask
    whether I would be interested in linking my system to a network of
    Fundamentalist Nazis, saying that "people like us" need to network
    and stick together to "fight evil."

    I was quite willing to do so, of course, with the added bonus of
    linking the start-up network with FidoNet for further distribution
    yet he quickly learned that The Skeptic Tank is an educational
    system.  Some how he confused the discussion forums about religion
    on The Skeptic Tank to be pro-religion and, in his short sightedness
    assumed that pro-religion means pro-Christianity.

Fredric Rice
Logic? Reason? Truth? Education? Science? Rationality? Critical thought? Sanity?

You have strange notions of what constitutes evil, my friend.

Rich Allen
Ok I will justify it by religion and make a fool out of you once again. Now Im reading you you say Oh this Rich Allen says hes religous yet he calls me a fool? Yes Frederic you are a fool..A FOOL! AHAHAHHAHA

    Psychologists talk about a phenomena known as "verbal salad."  It
    is usually exhibited at times of stress.

THE BIBLE SAYS "A FOOL...YES FOOL SAYS THERE IS NO GOD...

I AM NOT in this world to bring people to Christ I let the holy spirit do that...I am here to fight the perverts that you are.

Guess this means were not friends anymore huh? ahahahhaha

RICH ALLEN KICKING EVIL IN THE ASS EVERY DAY... OH BY THE WAY IM LOCKING YOU OUT OF THE BBS BEFORE YOU SPREAD YOUR PERVERSION SOME MORE ON MY KICK ASS BBS.....LEAVE THE CRAP ON YOUR BBS NOT MINE.

    Rich Allen did indeed lock me out of his BBS because I started
    to forward messages to him from dozens of individuals in the
    FidoNet HolySmoke forum.

    He went on to concoct a lie for his fellow Fundamentalists to the
    effect that I was banned for dropping carrier while on-line to
    his system -- my guess is he never considered the possibility that
    I would sign on with an alias and upload his message above and
    expose his lie.

~*~ New Message ~*~

Rich Allen
History shows that great things were accomplished by christian men...I choose to take there side.

Fredric Rice
History has shown that Christianity has been and continues to be the single most deadly ideology ever unleashed upon humanity. Not even Pol Pot or Stalin combined has reached the body count attributed to Christians.

Rich Allen
In the words of Jesus Christ...

Fredric Rice
No one knows what the Jesus mythos said or didn't say as he didn't leave any writings. What you're trying to do is justify yourself by putting words into a myth that you think grants you justification for any deadly ideology you care to advance.

That's what Christians have done for 2,000 years.

Rich Allen
"I did not come to bring Peace but a sword"

Fredric Rice
Thus we see the justification for the inhuman tyrannies Christianity inflicts upon humanity.

Rich Allen
Hatred is good if it is directed towards evil for if we love evil we will hate all people-

Fredric Rice
The difficulty stems from ignorant and superstitious people who are incapable of seeing the evil that they perpetuate.

Rich Allen
You dont even believe Jesus Christ is god..How stupid can you be?

~*~ New Message ~*~

Rich Allen
You call my members homo phobic?

Fredric Rice
I call anyone who demonize innocent people (who harm no one) just because of their sexuality a homophobic bigot.

Rich Allen
What is your definition of homo phobic?

Fredric Rice
Someone who hates and fears homosexuals, either because they were brought up by their parents to be bigots, learned it from their environment, or was taught to hate as a matter of religious ideology.

Most Christians have no problem with another's sexuality. Only homophobic bigots do.

Rich Allen
If you say that we are afraid of them we fear only God.

Fredric Rice
Thus proving that Christianity is evil and a blasphemy. Only a false religion would create deities that followers fear. It is an extreme blasphemy against the true Creator that Christianity foments when it constructs deities that are feared.

In any event, homophobics hate and fear homosexuality. Scratch a homophobic bigot and you'll usually find someone who fears his own homosexual feelings and is uncomfortable with his or her own sexuality

Rich Allen
Maybe you should Email officer George Ogden who will show you REPORT UPON REPORT OF THE RAPE THE HOMOSEXUALS HAVE BEEN DOING....

    I tried repeatedly to get information on how to contact George
    Ogden and was ignored every time.  I further tried to get Rich
    Allen to support his accusations and fork-over some names, dates,
    locations, police docket numbers et al.

    It was a given that he couldn't provide the asked-for information
    inasmuch as it is a lie that Fundamentalist Nazi Christians
    perpetuate in an attempt to justify their hatred of innocent
    people based solely upon their sexuality.

RICH ALLEN KICKING EVIL IN THE ASS EVERYDAY

    It has been noted that the most rabid anti-homosexual bigots
    through out history have themselves been suffering from the
    cognitive dissonance created by conflicts between their own
    homosexuality and their religious indoctrinations.

~*~ New Message ~*~

Rich Allen
We are disgusted with what they do because God Calls it abomination.

Fredric Rice
Trying to justify such hatred with deities is evil, Rich.

1) Do you eat pigs?
2) Do you wear mixed fibers?
3) Do you cut your hair?
4) Do you cut your beard?
5) Do you engage in coitus a week before or after her period?

    Rich Allen never bothered to respond to these questions.  No
    Fundamentalist Christian bigot who hates homosexuals and uses the
    Classical Christian mythologies as justification has ever offered
    an excuse on why they engage in these other "abominations" and don't
    feel the need to pretend they're "damned" for doing so.

All these things are "abominations" according to the Christian myths. Why is it that cultists only focus upon one of them? Could it be because they use the myths as justification for their hatred?

Rich Allen
We dont answer to people who say we must accept what God calls abomination.

Fredric Rice
That's a lie. What people like you do is _shoot_ and _beat_ people who you hate and fear and use your deity constructs as justification. Oh: It's also a good weapon to make money with.

Rich Allen
We never ever will.

Fredric Rice
Yes you will. Homophobic bigotry is _slowly_ dieing out as membership in the Christian cult slowly declines. Most Christians today have no problem with another's sexuality. It is only the truly evil that tremble in fear and hatred while thinking about other people's sexuality.

Rich Allen
We must obey God rather than men who go against what God says.

Fredric Rice
You pick and chose what you will do and what you will not. Your deity constructs are made to say and not say anything you want them to. That's the nature of religious cults.

Rich Allen
Like I have said again and thank you for giving me another chance to spread my WRAITH AGAINST THE PERVERS HOMOSEXUALS who are BRINGING THE MORALITY OF OUR COUNTRY DOWN..IF A HOMOSEXUAL EVER EVER TRIED TO SCAM ON ME OR ONE OF MY FRIENDS WE WOULD HAVE THE RIGHT UNDER THE LAW TO THOUROUGHLY KICK HIS ASS...NO HOMOSEXUAL BETTER LAY A HAND ON A CRUSADER.

ILL BEAT EM UP SIDE THE HEAD WITH MY BIBLE! AHAHAH

RICH ALLEN KICKING EVIL IN THE ASS EVERYDAY

    Most Fundamentalist Christians and Right Wing Extremists hold
    this level of hatred and advocate just this.  Only a small
    percentage of them are willing to state their agenda this
    publicly, in front of witnesses, however.

Fredric Rice
There's an interesting claim. Have any evidence for it? Any at all?

Rich Allen
If you say you have the right to help it thrive then I have the right to help my brothers of America out of this vicious life style of sorrow.

Fredric Rice
Christianity is far more unnatural and pitiful a life style than homosexuality. Just look at the life you lead: you fear fictional constructs and pattern your miserable existence on trying to live up to what _men_ manipulate you into.

Homosexuals, on the other hand, are just as bright, happy, intelligent, and caring as heterosexuals are. You are trying to make them into sub-human monsters so you can justify your hatred.

Rich Allen
Yes I have evidence COUNTLESS EVIDENCE. DOWNLOAD AMERICA.ZIP READ THE BIBLE IT IS IMPOSSIBLE..TO READ BOTH WITHOUT BELIEVING.

YOU HAVE NO EVIDENCE

~*~ New Message ~*~

Rich Allen
The reason why we talk so much about the ABOMINATION OF HOMOSEXUALITY (QUOTED DIRECTLY FROM THE BIBLE) is because the abomination is spreading.

Fredric Rice
There's an interesting claim. Have any evidence for it? Any at all?

    Repeated requests for evidence to back up his assertion went
    ignored.  In actual fact the percentage of homosexuality
    among any populace remains the same though there are studies
    which suggest that homosexuality is merely a measure of
    percentage of homosexual behavior; in other words, everyone
    is both homosexual and heterosexual to some degree but that
    evolution favors heterosexuality.

    The fascist needs to pretend that there is a growing threat to
    counter to justify his actions.

    Patriotism: A method of whipping-up the unwashed masses to
    make them perpetuate or advocate any tyranny without question
    for the fiction called "the common good."

Homosexuals, on the other hand, are just as bright, happy, intelligent, and caring as heterosexuals are. You are trying to make them into sub-human monsters so you can justify your hatred.

Rich Allen
Our country was born under Christianity and your just some pervert who runs a BBS to destroy America. My members could kick your members asses with one hand tied behind our back! Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehawwww!

    And yet he refused to allow me to link his system to the rest of
    the world which would allow his users to "kick our asses."
    He further admitted to banning me from his BBS for the strict
    explanation of keeping his users from having the chance to read
    what I and my users have to say.

~*~ New Message ~*~

Rich Allen
Many a man has left this lifestyle.

Fredric Rice
More men and women have left the unnatural Christian lifestyle.

Christianity dictates sexual dysfunction, yes. Except that one can't change one's sexuality. Pretending to be a heterosexual when you're not is just another lie that Christianity makes followers mouth.

Rich Allen
It has always made me raise my brow when people always say the good they do.

Fredric Rice
They're no different than you, Rich. Trying to paint them as sub- human is the result of your hatred and fear. It's the result of your religion.

Rich Allen
If you DARE TO MEET WITH ME, RAUL RIES, GREG LORIE WE WOULD MAKE A BELIEVER OUT OF YOU..AND WE HAVE EX-HOMOSEXUALS THAT ARE NOW CHRISTIANS THAT WILL LOOK YOU IN THE EYE AND SHOW YOU THEIR WIVES, THEIR CHILDREN..THEIR GOD.

    Repeated requests to get together with these Fundamentalists
    were ignored.  It seems that his invitation was a lie.

~*~ New Message ~*~

Rich Allen
You say you distribute food and/or blankets to the needy.

Fredric Rice
A great many people do regardless of whether they believe in deity constructs or not. Doing charity has nothing to do with deity constructs. Doing bad also has nothing to do with holding or not holding deity constructs.

Rich Allen
Judas told Jesus that costly perfume could have been sold and given to the poor and Jesus said "the poor you will have with you always and what this woman is doing with the perfume is good".

Fredric Rice
No one knows what "Judas" or "Jesus" said since they left no known written works.

Rich Allen
Jesus comes first then man not the other way around.

Fredric Rice
That's silly. Humans have been around for about 40,000 years in various degrees. Homosapien Sapien has been around for some 30,000 years. Written words have been around for 10,000 years.

The Jesus mythos is a late comer to the available pantheon of deities that men have created. It's one of the most evil and most blasphemous deity constructs yet, in fact.

Rich Allen
Are you not a scholar of the holy bible?

Fredric Rice
No, I am a scholar of the myths.

Rich Allen
Have you not read it?

Fredric Rice
No, I have read it many times. It's so fraught with scientific error and contradiction it's even worse than Wonder Woman comics. The difference is that few people have murdered for Wonder Woman.

Rich Allen
Remember, nobody has ever erected a statue to a skeptic

    I wonder if this is the root of the Radical Religious Right:
    to be so tyrannical as to be remembered throughout history rather
    than be a pathetic and nameless face, unremarkable in life and
    unremembered after death.

Nearly every claim you've made has been shown to be in error. The reason is because you base your every thought upon a lie.

Rich Allen
Attention Crusaders! Frederic Rice is Mad! ahahahah

~*~ New Message ~*~

Fredric Rice
I've broken-up your messages to me so that I could address each one individually. I did this because you failed to address some 90% of the issues I brought up previously and elected to pick-out only one issue to address.

I hope that by breaking it up, you'll remember to address each of the issues when you have the time.

Rich Allen
I get all information from the bible..

Fredric Rice
That's probably your first mistake, yes.

Rich Allen
fact is you dont believe the bible is accurate and I do.

Fredric Rice
That's inaccurate inasmuch as I don't "believe" anything. I understand the origins of the classic Christian mythologies and I also understand the plethora of logical flaws, scientific errors, and contradictions. Knowing the origins of the mythologies and understanding the physical impossibilities they talk about raises my position from one of "belief" to one of accepting the facts of the matter.

Rich Allen
Frederic you say you dont believe in anything? Man thats wierd????????

    Since he can't imagine an individual lacking the need to construct
    beliefs, those who base their existence upon that which can be
    demonstrated are "wierd."

~*~ New Message ~*~

Rich Allen
hahahahah Frederic you would go broke as an attorneyahahhah You think by you saying it it makes it true? hahahahahhaha

You dont even offer proof! ahahahha

Man your funny.

Im putting my trust in a man that rose from the dead not in myself... thats where your going to have the problem.

Fredric Rice
The "crucifiction" and the "resurrection" are myths which were added to the Christian religion rather late in the game. Mark's account is the oldest yet it's the worse when it comes to embarrassing mistakes. Matthew attempted to fix some of those errors yet it ended up badly contradicting the Mark account. Luke is a better, more literate update to try to fix the contradictions yet Mark and Matthew still managed to survive and contradict Luke.

Additionally, the resurrection myth is a remake of the Mithras religion which Paul/Saul, the Terrorist of Tarsus, was brought up in. Since Mithras was a resurrected god, the new Christian cult had to have one also.

    A good review of this process can be found in "The Making of
    The Messiah:  Christianity and Resentment" by Robert Sheaffer.
    Prometheus Books, ISBN 0-87975-691-8.

~*~ New Message ~*~

Rich Allen
Well I guess your worm bait then?! ahhahaha

I dont know if you have seen the statistics on death but they are staggering! 1 out of 1 will die! ahahah :)

    Proving once again that most Christians cling to their early
    indoctrinations out of the fear of the unavoidable eventuality
    of their own death.  This wouldn't be a problem where it not
    for the fact that they seek to impose their tyranny upon those
    of us who hold no such delusions.

Rich Allen
This life you and I have here is not even the size of a grain of sand compared to what happens after we die.

Fredric Rice
That's an attempt to deny the fact that once you're dead, you're dead. I understand that having to face death is quite difficult for some people -- yet it doesn't have to be. More people on Earth manage to live with the reality of their own death without having to contrive deity constructs to try to convince themselves they'll be granted special dispensation.

It is _evil_ and immoral to demand that people live after they're dead. It is that ideology which has been the single most destructive ideology of the Christian cult yet. It's so easy to murder innocent people when they're "not really dead."

~*~ New Message ~*~

Rich Allen
Oh thats too bad for you then because the bible says were going to kick some ass...Looks like your on the wrong side..tsk tsk.

Oh well.. It is evil what you are doing since there is no worthwile purpose in putting religions down.

Fredric Rice
Is that what you call pointing out the self-destructive and other- destructive aspects of an evil cult? Christianity has been and continues to be the single most destructive force ever unleashed against humanity.

Do you also say that pointing at Nazi Germany fascism and denouncing it for what it stands for and yields is "putting it down?" Do you also say that pointing at Islam and the evils it's done in the name of their gods is "putting them down?"

    Mysteriously I never received an answer to these questions either.

    Additionally notice how the fascist is gleefully looking forward to
    a day when he will be allowed to murder anyone he wishes because his
    mythologies tell him he'll be able to "some day."  Notice how he
    demands that everyone who doesn't hold his racist, bigoted beliefs
    and hatred is "on the wrong side."

    What we find with Rich Allen is a pathetic little man who was most
    likely subjected to school-yard injustice by his intellectual and
    moral superiors; a man who normal women wouldn't touch; a man who's
    only friends are among the sick of mind.  To excuse his hatred and
    resentment he concocted his deities and shoved words into their
    mouthes to justify his hoped-for rape, torture, and slaughter of all
    those in America who presume the audacious temitry of living loving,
    useful, productive lives without the need to derive satisfaction at
    the demonzation of innocent millions.