Notice: Fredric Rice may have removed segments of the replies given to
questions if they contained copoyrighted materials. After a very short
while, Scientology "experts" refused to answer questions and
started cut-and-pasting copyrighted cult propaganda. Additionally I
removed URLs in some of the replies, and left them in others. And it's
also important to note that eventually the unfortunate "Greg
Churilov" cultist was ejected from
askme.com for his typical Scientological behavior.
Anonymous asked himself this question on 4/22/2000:
I have been reading about your faith and enjoyed very much what
Ive read. I'm a gay man living in the USA. What are your views
on Homosexuality?
Can I be A memeber of your faith with out changing?
Thank you for any help.
Greg Churilov gave himself this insane, meandering rant on 4/23/2000:
Hello Anonymous; First of all let me apologize. I am deeply saddened
that your sincere question was hurriedly attacked by three
ANTI-scientologists who hang out on this board like wolves ready
to spread their hate for any minority group. I feel that I can
answer your question with a LOT more objectivity. Especially because
a very close friend of mine is a bisexual male who is also a
Scientologist.
I am going to break down my by a line like this ======== :-) First of
all let me address some of the lies and hate-based bias, if I may.
1) L.Ron Hubbard's son Quentin was not gay, he was in love with a
girl and they ran away together. She dumped him. He was a very
sensitive guy (think Andy Gibb) and was crushed. I don't know the
details of his sad passing - but it is shameful that someone would
use the tragedy of a straight depressed son of a celebrity to attack
gay people. Shameful and supid.
2) I am sorry you were hurt by all the barbs thrown by "barb131".
I don't know why this person has not been removed as an expert
yet. He/she is obviously a spiteful bigot. Please report them
as a bogus expert.
3) The misquotes "barb 131" used are from various sources, and
apply to various things, and are NOT addressed at gay people.
They are addressed at those people who are at the level of 1.1
on the Emotional Tone Scale. This level is called "covert hostility"
Think "passive aggression". Hubbard felt really strongly that people
at this band are damaging society. Regardless if these people are
straight bi or gay, people at this band are the ones who tend to
break hearts, violate promises, betray their lovers and tear down
good-hearted people.
He was talking of people like Andrew Cunanan, or John Holmes, the
porn star who (knowing he had AIDS) continued to have unprotected sex
with many women, etc.
He was talking about the bar-hopping romeos looking for one night
stands while their wives sleep at home. He was talking about the
manipulating seductresses who make men kill one another. Those are
the element Hubbard viewed as damaging to society. And even then, when
he talked of having them all quarantined he was being facetious, as
obviously demonstrated by the fact that in Scientology Organizations
all over the World there is no such practice. (These critics are so
literal!)
My guess is thatt Adolf Hitler was likely misunderstood - flr]
The few sentences tht ARE about homosexuals were written in 1948-195
5. This is WAY before Stonewall.
The statements were generalized and theoretical. During the next
decades L.Ron Hubbard evolved his research further. A lot more
discoveries about the human mind were made.
I believe our whole Society has grown to understand this issue more
over the last five decades.
2) The Church has a policy described in a Policy Letter called
"2D rules". (2D is a reference to the Second Dynamic of Life,
which is sex and the family). In this Policy, L.Ron Hubbard states clearly
that it is not the business of the Church to look into people's
bedrooms and dictate their sexual conduct.
Also, in a series of tapes called "The Route to Infinity", L.Ron
Hubbard talks about homosexuality at length. Hubbard's research concluded
clearly that we live many lives, and that we have all inhabited both
male and female bodies at one time or another, over a period of
thousands and thousands of years.
In fact, a lot of our unhappiness comes from unfinished business
from previous lives.
Funny how this cultist forgot to mention that, huh? - flr]
How could there NOT be homosexuality after all that history of
experiencing both genders?
Scientology is about the alignment of one's Life Dynamics towards
greater happiness. All misalignments on the different dynamics cause
greater of lesser unhappiness. If an individual is happy and at
peace, there is nothing to fix. If an individual is at conflict
with himself, Scientology can resolve that conflict. It doesn't
matter if one's conflicts are about sexual orientation or about
smoking or about career advancement. Scientology does not seek to
mold an individual, but to lessen the burdens he carries and make
him more able.
3) My personal experience: One of my closest friends is bisexual.
He has been a scientologist for over a decade. During this decade
he has addressed, in session and through courses, issues about
drinking, about his father, about his failed marriage, etc. In over
ten years nobody has penalized him for his same-sex relationships.
I do have to point out though that the human beings that come into
Scientology bring with them their own background and with that they
bring their prejudices and their own baggage. So ocassionally I have
heard anti-gay comments from fellow Scientologists. I have also heard
fellow Scientologists criticizing a movie I happen to like, or a
political party other Scientologists belong to.
It's a free world and everyone's got their opinions.
In the case of my friend, his sexual orientation has not changed in
all the years he's been a Scientologist. What DID change though is
his relationships with his family, his overall happiness (he used to
be the brooding type), his career success and his optimism.
I am sure he is glad to be who he is, both in terms of sexual
orientation and in terms of Spiritual commitment. And I am glad to
have him as a friend.
My personal advice: Go to an actual Scientology center and speak
to the Chaplain there. He will advice you truthfully.
Or call 1-800-THE TRUTH Or visit http://www.whatisscientology.org
Scientology is about helping people go free. It is not about caging
them with labels. It is about improving ability and confidence,
about overcoming personal fears, and rising to new heights. best,
Anonymous asked himself this follow-up question on 4/23/2000:
Hello Spirit, Nice to hear from you again, I posted this question
anymousely, becauese of bigetry I recieve as a gay man but you
have in the past answere many of my question always giving me a
honest and compelling answere. I did report the bogus experts and
will continue to do so. I thought only gay guys had it that rough.
thou my experience with scientology is limilted I have great respect
for you and will continue to do so. Your Friend
Greg Churilov insanely gave himself this response on 4/23/2000:
Thank you and all the best to you too. your friend, Spirit
Further facts
about this criminal empire may be found at
Operation Clambake and FACTNet.
Return to The Skeptic Tank's main Index page.
Subject: hello
[Why, I'd bet he even has some darky friends! - flr]
[That's an insane lie. Hubbard disinheareted his son and hated him
because his son was gay. Hubbard Jr. changed his name because daddy hated
him so much. Additionally Hubbard Jr. testified about the criminal
Scientology cult in Clearwater, Florida, and gave a good solid accounting
of what his insane dad's plans for the city were - flr]
[In fact the "barb131" individual is an ex-Scientologist who
knows more about the Scientology crime syndicate that this individual ever
will. Indeed, the Barb131 expert is able and willing to discuss Xenu and
body thetans. That's something this Greg cultist isn't able to do. So who's
the expert again? - flr]
[And that's a lie. Hubbard said that anyone who doesn't join the cult is
an enemy of the cult (after all, none of their money goes into Hubbard's
numbered bank accounts so of course they're enemies.) These people are all
"1.1" according to Hubbard and, in Hubbard's own words, everyone
who's "1.1" should be "disposed of quietly and without
sowwor." And yes, that means what you think it means - flr]
[Funny how this cultist ignores Hubbard's insane, fascist policies when
he's embarrassed by them, isn't it? - flr]
[Ah, I see. The people who review the internal documents that the crime
syndicate tried to keep the public from reading are all "being too
literal." Yeah, that must be it! The fact that these documents --
which numbered greater than 23,000 in the last major raid in America --
specifically spell out the extermination of billions because they're
"1.1" in Hubbard's insane, paranoid delusions is all because
the documents are being read "too literally!"
[Next this cultist will try to demand that the insane hatred of his mad
messiah against faggots covered in Hubbard's writings and audio tapes
were all some kind of suck joke - flr]
[Another lie. In fact the whole point of the criminal organization known
as the "Guardian Office" which was renamed the "Office of
Special Affairs" is to find such information about "enemies"
of the criminal cult so that they could be used for blackmail and extortion
- flr]
[Another lie. Hubbard did no "research" on anything beyond massive
drug abuse and the extremely unfortunate insanity that he suffered from - flr]
[And that's a lie. But what this cultist doesn't mention is that Hubbard's
entire fraud is predicated upon the "unhappiness" of people being
due to being infested with invisible murdered space aliens, killed by
Galactic ruler Lord Xenu. The fragments of these murdered aliens attack
themselves to humans and that's what causes unhappiness.
[Well, this unfortunate cultist has exhibited a marked lack of education
in so many areas, human biology is just another area - flr]
[And that's another lie. Scientology is about making money, making more
money, and helping others to make money for the Scientology cult. Hubbard's
own internal policies -- made available through numerous Federal raids and
the Freedom of Information Act -- state unambigiously that making money is
Scientology's primary goal - flr]
[It would be nice if that was all of it. But in fact the cultist is lying
again. Hatred of homosexuals is an integral part of Hubbard's insane
paranoia. Hell, Hubbard claimed that psychologists were the ones who
created sex in the first place to control humans. Hubbard's insane hatred
of gays was just one of the many aspects of his sexual problems he wrote
about in his writings he called "affirmations." - flr]
[That, too, would be fine as far as that goes. But in fact Scientology is
a criminal organization that hurts people; kills them, some times, like with
poor Lisa McPherson - flr]
[Presumably the cult suckered this "friend" of his under the
pretence of being able to "cure" him of his homosexuality. That's
how they managed to get John Travolta in, it seems - flr]
[Or better yet, download the truth about Scientology off of the Internet,
reviewing the cult's own internal documents - flr]
[But that's another lie. That web site doesn't have anything about Xenu
or body thetans or anything that covers what Scientology is really all
about. Indeed, it has few of Hubbard's internal documents. And that's
no wonder since all those documents seized in many raids prove that the
criminal cult is only after getting as much money out of their rubes as
possible - flr]
This web page (and The Skeptic Tank) is in no way connected with
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many secret front groups the cult attempts to hide behind.
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