Notice: Fredric Rice may have removed segments of the replies given to questions if they contained copyrighted materials. After a very short while, Scientology "experts" refused to answer questions and started cut-and-pasting copyrighted cult propaganda. Additionally I removed URLs in some of the replies, and left them in others. And it's also important to note that eventually the unfortunate "Greg Churilov" cultist was ejected from askme.com for his typical Scientological behavior.

Subject: Tronto Violence
Answered by: honorarykid
Asked By: 1UglyHombre

1UglyHombre asked this question on 5/7/2000:

The scientology cult in Toronto has been very, very violent to some people there when those people protest the crimes the cult has committed. Question: why have I not seen, nor heard, nor read, any other Scientologists denouncing that violence?

honorarykid gave this response on 5/8/2000:

Scientology has behaved rather badly in reacting to peaceful protests of its Toronto Organization, but I wouldn't characterize their behavior as "very violent."

Very unethical, sneaky, manipulative and annoying would be a better characterization. There have been a few contacts between Scientologists and protestors, but these have been minor, and no one has been physically harmed. Mental and psychological terror is how Scientology operates. Scientology looks for weak spots and tries to exploit them.

See: http://www.xenutv.com/mike

for an interview by Mike McCloughry, former "Black Ops" director for the GO in San Francisco, for a complete explanation of the exact tactics and thinking processes that Scientology operatives use to attack their critics. The CoS often concludes that silencing or discrediting someone is more important than obeying the law.

One of the more prominent Toronto protesters is a man named Gregg Hagglund. In an attempt to silence and intimidate Mr. Hagglund, Scientology OSA "operatives" paid a visit to the distant home of his very elderly and frail parents. The Canadian Scientologist contingent stood at the front door of his parents' home, and scared them quite badly with their sudden fanatical and non-sequitur ranting about their son's alleged "bigotry and hatred of religious freedoms." This sort of "persuasion" is disgusting and highly unethical. It's akin to a covert threat against one's family.

It's this sort of covert, manipulative, sneaky, smarmy behavior that Scientology seems to prefer, rather than overt violence.

Too, I would ask the reader to notice the similar hostility towards criticisms and as well as the similar verbal tactics in that case, to the hostility and responses to criticism here on this forum, by pro-Scientology posters, LarryBergen and Spirit. The message of "hate, bigotry, etc., etc." is almost identical.

Scientology's most infamous and vicious harassments probably came at the expense of Paulette Cooper, an author wrote a book called "The Scandal of Scientology."

Scientology tried to frame her for a bomb threat and also for making death threats to Henry Kissinger. One day she answered a knock on the door, opened the door, and an anonymous man pointed a (unloaded, unbeknownst to her) pistol at her head and dry fired it.

I'll relate one more story about violence from within the CoS.

When L. Ron Hubbard was still alive, he got very angry at a group of ex-Scientologists whom he had declared as "suppressive" people. He went on to order in an official policy memo that any Sea Org member who came into contact with any of the people on the list was to do an immediate "R2-45 audit" on them. The term "R2-45 audit" is a euphamism for murdering them with a .45 cal. pistol.

Scientology's official position on this policy letter is that it was only a joke, and never meant seriously. I doesn't sound much like a joke to me, it's certainly not funny in any Scientology context I'm aware of. But if it was a joke, then Hubbard used extreme bad judgement in telling such a joke, realizing that some small fraction of his followers would do anything, and I do mean absolutely anything, that Hubbard told them to do. There are some people in Scientology that are that fanatical.

But I personally don't believe the R2-45 comment was a joke. I believe that Hubbard's temper and megalomania created a real order to kill enemies. However, I think to their credit, most Scientologists would consider such an order to be beyond the pale, and would not carry it out. However, they are still nevertheless willing to falsely spin and misinterpret Hubbard's infamous order, so as to reduce the potential for embarrassment to Hubbard's legacy. More's the pity.

honorarykid gave this follow-up answer on 5/8/2000:

Hi 1UglyHombre,

I went to alt.religion.scientology and found a Toronto picket report from Gregg Hagglund. It seems that you are correct, there was some low level violence by a Scientologist against Mr. Hagglund, if we are to believe the report. Hagglund writes:

------

We did about 150 flyers most in the first few minutes. Thereafter we each had an 'assigned' harasser.

the Reckless and Repugnant Mr. Ramsay was waiting for me and physically attacked me outside of Star Bucks. David Palter witnessed the action from inside Star Bucks.

Ramsay blocked my way and bumped into me. I tried to get around him. He was shouting he was "going to be all over me today Child abuser" I was shouting he was crazy and to leave me alone. He then tried to punch me in the stomach, which I kind of dodged by turning sideways so the blow skipped off my slight paunch. He then poked me in the mouth with his forefinger again shouting that 'He was going to be all over me' I then eluded him long enough to get by him and head for the safety of Star Bucks. He caught up with me at the door and we grasped the handle at the same time opening the door. I tried to slip thru' and he tried to push the door shut on me.

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Later in the report, Hagglund called 911 to report the assault to police.

I would report such an assualt, too, but I don't think I would dial 911.

1UglyHombre rated this answer a 5.

Goddess! That's frightening. From what I read, I think "violent" applies since that lunatic Scientologist laid in wait for a peacefull protester and ambused him. As I wrote to the other expert, if I saw one of my co-worshipers behave like that, I would call the police myself! And step in the way to prevent further assaults while waiting for the police to show up. Why have I neither seen nor heard any Scientologist denouce this violence?!

Further facts about this criminal empire may be found at Operation Clambake and FACTNet.

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