Notice: Fredric Rice may have removed segments of the replies given to
questions if they contained copyrighted materials. After a very short
while, Scientology "experts" refused to answer questions and
started cut-and-pasting copyrighted cult propaganda. Additionally I
removed URLs in some of the replies, and left them in others. And it's
also important to note that eventually the unfortunate "Greg
Churilov" cultist was ejected from
askme.com for his typical Scientological behavior.
Subject: Tronto Violence
1UglyHombre asked this question on 5/7/2000:
The scientology cult in Toronto has been very, very violent to some
people there when those people protest the crimes the cult has
committed. Question: why have I not seen, nor heard, nor read, any
other Scientologists denouncing that violence?
honorarykid gave this response on 5/8/2000:
Scientology has behaved rather badly in reacting to peaceful protests
of its Toronto Organization, but I wouldn't characterize their behavior
as "very violent."
Very unethical, sneaky, manipulative and annoying would be a better
characterization. There have been a few contacts between
Scientologists and protestors, but these have been minor, and no one
has been physically harmed. Mental and psychological terror is how
Scientology operates. Scientology looks for weak spots and tries to
exploit them.
See: http://www.xenutv.com/mike
for an interview by Mike McCloughry, former "Black Ops" director for
the GO in San Francisco, for a complete explanation of the exact
tactics and thinking processes that Scientology operatives use to
attack their critics. The CoS often concludes that silencing or
discrediting someone is more important than obeying the law.
One of the more prominent Toronto protesters is a man named Gregg
Hagglund. In an attempt to silence and intimidate Mr. Hagglund,
Scientology OSA "operatives" paid a visit to the distant home of his
very elderly and frail parents. The Canadian Scientologist contingent
stood at the front door of his parents' home, and scared them quite
badly with their sudden fanatical and non-sequitur ranting about their
son's alleged "bigotry and hatred of religious freedoms." This sort of
"persuasion" is disgusting and highly unethical. It's akin to a covert
threat against one's family.
It's this sort of covert, manipulative, sneaky, smarmy behavior that
Scientology seems to prefer, rather than overt violence.
Too, I would ask the reader to notice the similar hostility towards
criticisms and as well as the similar verbal tactics in that case, to the
hostility and responses to criticism here on this forum, by
pro-Scientology posters, LarryBergen and Spirit. The message of
"hate, bigotry, etc., etc." is almost identical.
Scientology's most infamous and vicious harassments probably came
at the expense of Paulette Cooper, an author wrote a book called
"The Scandal of Scientology."
Scientology tried to frame her for a bomb threat and also for making
death threats to Henry Kissinger. One day she answered a knock on
the door, opened the door, and an anonymous man pointed a
(unloaded, unbeknownst to her) pistol at her head and dry fired it.
I'll relate one more story about violence from within the CoS.
When L. Ron Hubbard was still alive, he got very angry at a group of
ex-Scientologists whom he had declared as "suppressive" people. He
went on to order in an official policy memo that any Sea Org member
who came into contact with any of the people on the list was to do an
immediate "R2-45 audit" on them. The term "R2-45 audit" is a
euphamism for murdering them with a .45 cal. pistol.
Scientology's official position on this policy letter is that it was only a
joke, and never meant seriously. I doesn't sound much like a joke to
me, it's certainly not funny in any Scientology context I'm aware of.
But if it was a joke, then Hubbard used extreme bad judgement in
telling such a joke, realizing that some small fraction of his followers
would do anything, and I do mean absolutely anything, that Hubbard
told them to do. There are some people in Scientology that are that
fanatical.
But I personally don't believe the R2-45 comment was a joke. I
believe that Hubbard's temper and megalomania created a real order
to kill enemies. However, I think to their credit, most Scientologists
would consider such an order to be beyond the pale, and would not
carry it out. However, they are still nevertheless willing to falsely spin
and misinterpret Hubbard's infamous order, so as to reduce the
potential for embarrassment to Hubbard's legacy. More's the pity.
honorarykid gave this follow-up answer on 5/8/2000:
Hi 1UglyHombre,
I went to alt.religion.scientology and found a Toronto picket report
from Gregg Hagglund. It seems that you are correct, there was some
low level violence by a Scientologist against Mr. Hagglund, if we are to
believe the report. Hagglund writes:
------
We did about 150 flyers most in the first few minutes. Thereafter we
each had an 'assigned' harasser.
the Reckless and Repugnant Mr. Ramsay was waiting for me and
physically attacked me outside of Star Bucks. David Palter witnessed
the action from inside Star Bucks.
Ramsay blocked my way and bumped into me. I tried to get around
him. He was shouting he was "going to be all over me today Child
abuser" I was shouting he was crazy and to leave me alone. He then
tried to punch me in the stomach, which I kind of dodged by turning
sideways so the blow skipped off my slight paunch. He then poked me
in the mouth with his forefinger again shouting that 'He was going to
be all over me' I then eluded him long enough to get by him and
head for the safety of Star Bucks. He caught up with me at the door
and we grasped the handle at the same time opening the door. I tried
to slip thru' and he tried to push the door shut on me.
------
Later in the report, Hagglund called 911 to report the assault to police.
I would report such an assualt, too, but I don't think I would dial 911.
1UglyHombre rated this answer a 5.
Goddess! That's frightening. From what I read, I think "violent" applies
since that lunatic Scientologist laid in wait for a peacefull protester and
ambused him. As I wrote to the other expert, if I saw one of my
co-worshipers behave like that, I would call the police myself! And step in
the way to prevent further assaults while waiting for the police to show up.
Why have I neither seen nor heard any Scientologist denouce this
violence?!
Further facts
about this criminal empire may be found at
Operation Clambake and FACTNet.
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Answered by: honorarykid
Asked By: 1UglyHombre
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