Notice: Fredric Rice may have removed segments of the replies given to questions if they contained copyrighted materials. After a very short while, Scientology "experts" refused to answer questions and started cut-and-pasting copyrighted cult propaganda. Additionally I removed URLs in some of the replies, and left them in others. And it's also important to note that eventually the unfortunate "Greg Churilov" cultist was ejected from askme.com for his typical Scientological behavior.

Subject: OT III
Answered by: larrybergen
Asked By: Raptavio

Raptavio asked this question on 5/5/2000:

Larry, I've had a bit of a dilemma here.

I've heard from critc after critic that the level known as OTIII (Operating Thetan III) involves a course referring to an "Incident Two" in which some galactic overlord named Xemu or Xenu did a number on a few billion people - I won't go over it all again, most critics' sites have the information.

I took it as read this was part of Scientology (I figure an evil galactic overlord is no more silly than some guy being nailed to a piece of wood, so it made no nevermind to me) until I came here and saw Spirit flat out deny that this was a part of Scientology. I was needless to say a bit puzzled.

You see, over on www.xenu.net - a noted critic's site - it says there were court cases related to these documents and that the Church claimed copyright over them. If the Church did this, of course, it would indicate that spirit was in error about the story of Xemu or Xenu being true. (I'm given to understand this document is 'secret' so maybe spirit isn't OTIII yet?)

Well I decided to find out for myself if the documents were true. A simple LEXIS search (WESTLAW will do just as well) turned up many cases where the Church of Scientology sued for copyright infringement over this and other documents, indicating that according to the CoS itself, these documents are bona fide.

Now, I don't see the story of 75 million year old genocide being the source of human misery as being any less reasonable than the stories behind many of the world's more mainstream religions - a great teacher being born as an old man to a virgin mother (Taoism), a man who can turn a staff to a serpent and part the Red Sea (Judaism), or a man being nailed to a tree washing the world of sin (Christianity), et cetera, et cetera, so please don't think this is dissing Scientology at all.

What I'd like to know is, is this a deliberate deception, is this just simply you and spirit haven't reached OTIII yet and simply have no specific knowledge of the document, or do you claim that Lexis is reporting cases that never truly existed? (or is there a fourth explanation I missed?)

larrybergen gave this response on 5/6/2000:

The fourth explanation is misinterpretation of data, remember the game "phone". Whatever you've read on any "xenu" channels is false data, distorted data. It is designed to disabuse people of scientology's worth to mankind.

Raptavio asked this follow-up question on 5/7/2000:

Please elucidate on how I'm misinterpreting data by noting that the CoS is indeed claiming the story of Incident Two as copyrighted church material.

larrybergen gave this response on 5/7/2000:

These websites are infringing on copyright laws. If they put up the coca cola symbol and told you coca cola contained rat poison instead of corn syrup they would be just as guilty of copyright infringement. In other words that doesn't mean the data presented is true, only that there is copyright infringement. I've looked at the data they present it is squirreled, distorted and taken out of context. The ideas are false and are only , by design, meant to malign the Church of Scientology.

Raptavio asked this follow-up question on 5/8/2000:

Oh, no. The OT III document is actually part of court record, and Scientology claims that the document itself is copyrighted. The Xemu/Xenu Incident Two story is quite definitely a part of Scientology.

I take it you haven't made OTIII yet?

larrybergen declined to answer on 5/8/2000:

[Of course he did. He's a liar and couldn't back up his claims - flr]

Further facts about this criminal empire may be found at Operation Clambake and FACTNet.

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