Introspection Rundown
Question answered by honorarykid in Scientology
formerscientologist asked this question on 7/19/2000:
Is it ok to give someone on the introspection rundown valium?
honorarykid gave this response on 7/20/2000:
I would say that theoretically, the answer is no. Scientology
despises what they call "psych"s and they hate the prescribing
and dispensing of "psych drugs."
However, in actual practice, things aren't always so pure.
Guarding a psychotic person is not an easy job. According to the
logs of her babywatch handlers, Lisa McPherson was reported to
be manic and somewhat violent at times during her Introspection
Rundown. The Scientologists who were guarding her arranged for
Chloral Hydrate to be prescribed for her by a Scientologist doctor
who had never examined her. This powerful drug was
administered to her a doctor who had lost her license to practice
medicine.
So clearly, Scientologists will be opportunistic when things get
tough on them. If it makes their lives easier, they have
demonstrated that they are willing to forceably medicate their
own incapacitated members with psychotropic drugs, even if
they did not specifically choose Valium in Lisa McPherson's case.
Unfortunately, I think there is little hope that these opportunistic
suspensions of their belief systems will ever create the impetus
for an institutional rethinking of Scientology's knee-jerk hatreds
of what they derisively call "psychs" and "psych drugs."
formerscientologist asked this follow-up question on 7/20/2000:
I didn't make myself clear on this question. I was only asking to find
out whether the valium is out tech or not because I had read that
Lisa was given valium.
Maybe I'll find the info on the internet.
honorarykid gave this response on 7/29/2000:
Hi FormerScientologist,
Sorry it took so long to get back to you on this question. But I'm
back from traveling and active as a Scientology expert once
again.
Did you ever find out if giving Valium to a Babywatch subject
was officially "out-tech?"
formerscientologist asked this follow-up question on 7/29/2000:
No. I did not.
honorarykid gave this response on 8/1/2000:
I posed this question to a.r.s readers, and got some tech
references which address your question. I will add several
followups with comments and tech references of other answers,
with this first one being (IMO) the most complete.
Apparently, it is NOT strictly out-tech for Scientologists to
dispense Valium (a mild sedative) to their psychotic peers.
L. Ron Hubbard wrote in
" The problem in insanity is often how do you keep the patient
from injuring himself or starving or dying before he can be
examined by a competent medical doctor in a properly equipt
clinic. This is done by rest, security, feeding, under drugs
if necessary."
This information came to me from former Scientologists Catarina
Pamnell. Here is her entire answer, which also shows that other
"psych" drugs were apparently tolerated by Scientology for
treatment of the psychotic and the insane (people which
Scientology calls "PTS Type III") in the past, as well as some
very curious and contradictory statements by Hubbard, not only
about the efficacy of dispensing sedatives, but also about the
need and efficacy for medical care for "Type Three" people by
licensed physicians.
=============
The Introspection Rundown bulletins I have seen have not
discussed drugs, only vitamins and minerals:
-----------------
HCO BULLETIN OF 23 JANUARY 1974RA
STEPS OF THE RD
(Steps 0 and 00 are for a person in a psychotic break, not a
normal person.)
Put this checklist on inside front cover of folder as a pgm.
0. On a person in a psychotic break isolate the person wholly
with all attendants completely muzzled (no speech).
00. Give Vitamins (B complex, including niacinamide) and minerals
(calcium and magnesium) to build the person up.
-------------------
But the following bulletin outright recommends mild sedatives for
insane patients:
-------------------
HCO BULLETIN OF 12 MARCH 1969, Issue II
"The CORRECT ACTION ON AN INSANE PATIENT IS A FULL
SEARCHING CLINICAL EXAMINATION BY A COMPETENT MEDICAL
DOCTOR.
He may find disease, fractures, concussion, tumors, or ANY
COMMON ILLNESS which has escaped treatment and has become
chronic(perpetual). He should keep looking until he finds it. For it
is there. NOT some "insane germ" but some ordinary recognizable
illness or physical malfunction."
(...)
"The problem in insanity is often how do you keep the patient
from injuring himself or starving or dying before he can be
examined by a competent medical doctor in a properly equipt
clinic.
This is done by rest, security, feeding, under drugs if necessary.
A patient can be "built up" by various biochemical compounds,
diathermy and other mild means that add to his stamina."
(...)
"Slow gain, poor result is a physically ill pc.
The exercise of these points requires judgement for a person can
be given treatments which will not heal him. Where this is the case,
and the treatment seems too damaging or uncertain, treat the pc on
this routine:
1. Rest
When the person seems well, audit him."
-------------
Note that it also stresses a thorough medical exam of the insane
person.
The next bulletin also advises soporifics if necessary:
------------------
HCO BULLETIN OF 24 NOVEMBER 1965
"The task with a Type Three is not treatment as such. It is to
provide a relatively safe environment and quiet and rest and no
treatment of a mental nature at all. Giving him a quiet court with
a motionless object in it might do the trick if he is permitted to
sit there unmolested. Medical care of a very unbrutal nature is
necessary as intravenous feeding and soporifics (sleeping and
quietening drugs) may be necessary, such persons are
sometimes also physically ill from an illness with a known medical
cure."
--------------------
This would make it OK to use Valium in a psychotic break
situation, if one would classify Valium as a "sleeping and
quietening drug".
However, there are other passages where Hubbard advises
against using sedatives on psychotics, but recommends
stimulants such as Benzedrine (an amphetamine):
--------------------
Science of Survival, book 2 chapter 17:
"Sedation of the neurotic or psychotic is a very dangerous
practice. If one must do something by way of drugs for these
people, better effects, according to medical observation, can
be achieved by the administration of stimulants such as benzedrine."
---------------------
Dianetics - the modern science of mental health, chapter 9 part 2:
"Benzedrine and other commercial stimulants have been used
with some success, particularly on psychotic patients."
---------------------
I'm not very well versed in the subject, but I believe that
amphetamines were over-the-counter drugs in the early 1950s.
Later on, Cal-Mag (a drink made with calcium gluconate and
magnesium carbonate) or magnesium tablets are suggested as
replacement for tranquilizers:
---------------------
HCO BULLETIN OF 5 NOVEMBER 1974
CAL-MAG FORMULA
---------------------
HCO BULLETIN OF 30 JULY 1973
"While the medical doctor and his psychiatry branch flood out the
useless and destructive "tranquilizers", the nutritionist hands out
a couple tablets of magnesium which actually cool a person off
beautifully and far more effectively without the physical damage
carried by the tranquilizer."
--------------------
As regards auditing, the recommendation is to not audit a person
who has recently taken drugs:
-------------------
HCO BULLETIN OF 17 OCTOBER 1969
"A person who has taken aspirin or other drugs within the past
24 hours or the past week, should be given a week to "dry out"
before auditing of any kind is given.
It is not fatal to audit over drugs. It is just difficult, the results
may not be lasting and need to be verified afterwards.
---------------------
However, under special circumstances the person may be
audited without a prior "dry out" period:
---------------------
HCO BULLETIN OF 11 JULY 1973
"When a person is injured, given a contact or touch assist and
then medical examination and treatment, he is given the
remainder as soon as he is able to be audited. The drug "five
days" does not need to apply."
--------------------
=============
End Answer from Catarina Pamnell
===============
honorarykid gave this follow-up answer on 8/1/2000:
Another poster to a.r.s, Michael Gormez, pointed me to an older
webbed a.r.s post made by Diane Richardson, which also
mentions another Hubbard Bulletin, HCOB 24, in greater detail.
Diane's full answer, which also contains some speculations about
other aspects of the treatment of Lisa McPherson, can be found
at:
http://www.b-org.demon.nl/scn/deaths/lisa_mcpherson/ars970711.html
Clearly, in HCOB 24, Hubbard is saying it's sometimes necessary
to drug a psychotic, but that the drugging is only a sort of
security and safety feature to keep a person from hurting
themselves, but that the drugs are not part of the ultimate
treatment of the psychosis. Interestingly, Hubbard also admits
that the Introspection Rundown treatment is not 100% effective,
and even casually predicts that some psychotic people will die.
================
Begin statement by Diane Richardson
=========================
[from] HCOB 24 November 1965 "Search and Discovery"
Contained in this HCOB are methods to be utilized to identify and
handle suppressive persons and potential trouble sources.
Hubbard begins by categorizing three types of PTS. Under
"Handling Type Three" Hubbard writes:
"The type three PTS is mostly in institutions or would be. In this
case the type two's apparent* SP is spread all over the world
and is often more than all the people there are--for the person
sometimes has ghosts about him or demons and they are just
more apparent SPs but imaginary as beings as well.
"*All* institutional cases are PTSes. The whole of insanity is
wrapped up in this one fact.
"The insane is not just a bad off being, the insane is a being who
has been overwhelmed by an actual SP until too many persons
are apparent SPs. This makes the person roller coaster
continually in life. The roller coaster is even cyclic (repetitive as
a cycle).
"Putting the person in a current institution puts him in a bedlam.
And when also 'treated' it may finish him. For he will roller
coaster from any treatment given until made into a type two and given a
search and discovery.
"The task with a type three is *not* treatment as such. It is to
provide a relatively *safe environment* and quiet and rest and
no treatment of a mental nature at all. Giving him a quiet court
with a motionless object in it might do the trick if he is permitted
to sit there unmolested. Medical care of a very unbrutal nature is
necessary as intravenous feeding and soporifics (sleeping and
quietening drugs) may be necessary, such persons are
sometimes also physically ill from an illness with a known medical
cure.
"*Treatment* with drugs, shock, operation is just more
suppression. The person will not really get well, will relapse etc.
"Standard auditing on such a person is subject to the roller
coaster phenomena [sic]. They get worse after getting better.
'Successes' are sporadic, enough to lead one on, and usually
worsen again since these people are PTS.
"But removed from apparent SPs, kept in a quiet surrounding, not
pestered or threatened or put in fear, the person comes up to
type two and a search and discovery should end the matter. But
there will always be some failures as the insane sometimes
withdraw into rigid unawareness as a final defense, sometimes
can't be kept alive and sometimes are too hectic and distraught
to ever become quiet. The extremes of too quiet and never quiet
have a number of psychiatric names such as 'catatonia'
(withdrawn totally) and 'manic' (too hectic).
"Classification is interesting but non-productive since they are all
PTS, all will roller coaster and none can be trained or processed
with any idea of lasting result no matter the temporary miracle.
"Remove a type three PTS from the environment, give him or her
rest and quiet, get a search and discovery done when rest and
quiet have made the person type two.
"The modern mental hospital with its brutality and suppressive
treatments is not the way to give a psychotic quiet and rest.
Before anything effective can be done in this field a proper
institution would have to be provided, offering only rest, quiet
and medical assistance for intravenous feedings and sleeping
draughts where necessary but not as 'treatment' and where
*no* treatment is attempted until the person looks recovered
and only then a search and discovery as above under type two."
=============
End statement by Diane Richardson
========================
honorarykid gave this follow-up answer on 8/1/2000:
Sorry for the long answer. This is the last followup I'll post on
this subject.
Another a.r.s poster named madwog, who was also subjected to
the babywatch, just as Lisa McPherson was, also pointed me to
HCOB 24. She gave this reference to this webbed a.r.s post
made by Scientology critic Ray Randolph:
http://www.stud.uni-hannover.de/user/76201/lisa/hcob.htm
Drifting slightly from the point of the original question, Madwog's
story may be read at:
http://www.primenet.com/~cultxpt/irsurviv.htm
Another Scientology "Babywatch" testimonial can be seen at:
http://home.snafu.de/tilman/mystory/940131_1.txt
Finally, a recent story of yet another psychotic break by a
Scientologist can be read at:
http://www.xenu.net/archive/personal_story/kathryn.html
When will the CoS finally see the big picture? When will they
realize that they have absolutely no clue about treating
psychotic people? When will they realize that their mental
experimentation and quackery are dangerous to those
unfortunate people being treated?
Soon, I hope...
formerscientologist rated this answer:
It looks like you gave me enough to keep me busy for a week.
---
likely to be read by the public. So I'll keep on
answering them.
Anonymous rated this answer:
Thank you for your reply. Any idea if there are other adgend or
"missions" in making such posts?
honorarykid gave this follow-up answer on 9/24/2000:
In my opinion, the agenda of the questioners who presume
there is a "hate group" here on AskMe.com, is a singular and
familiar one. Hubbard wrote over and over that his followers
should "strike a blow against Scientology's enemies," and
"Keep Scientology Working" (i.e. do anything you have to),
and "Never fear to hurt another in a just cause."
Just as the CoS had to do with a.r.s, the goal here at
AskMe.com seems to have shifted away from marketing to
newbies, and toward descredited anyone who says
uncomplimentary things about the Church of Scientology.
The Scientologists have a term for this type of effort. It is
called "dead agenting" someone. Now the ones who do the
dead-agenting will delude themselves into believing that the
act of dead agenting is fundamentally a form of truth-telling.
But it's not. Scientology "handlers" have lied, cheated, broken
the law, and even committed serious felonies in the past in
order to "dead agent" their critics.
The dead-agenting we see here on AskMe.com is small
potatoes compared to what people like Paulette Cooper and
Robert Vaughn Young and Bob Minton have had to deal with.
Now, if you're asking whether or not there is an official CoS
church organized effort to "handle" the critics of Scientology
here on AskMe.com, I would guess probably not (although I
could be wrong). To me, the Scientologists here seem to me
to be in volunteer mode.
That their behaviors, attitudes and arguments all seem so
similar is probably not enough to prove that an organized
"handling" operation is being mounted. It's only enough to
prove that the mental indoctrination that Scientologists
receive is pretty darn effective at getting them to act and
think in very similar ways.
By the way, another tactic Scientology has tried in the past,
is to obscure critical messages so they don't reach as wide
an audience. Here on AskMe.com, we've seen several series
of non-sequitur questions, which push the real questions
about Scientology off the first page in the HTML list. Being a
reasonable person, I suspect Scientologists.
Of course, both tactics, "dead agenting" and message
flooding, are done to mitigate the PR damage done by public
statements which are critical of Scientology.
Return to The Skeptic Tank's main Index page.
HCO BULLETIN OF 12 MARCH 1969, Issue II
PHYSICALLY ILL PCS AND PRE OTS
Begin Answer from Catarina Pamnell
===============
THE INTROSPECTION RD
PHYSICALLY ILL PCS AND PRE OTS
2. No harasament
3. Food
4. Mild sedatives.
LEVEL IV SEARCH AND DISCOVERY
DRUGS, MORE ABOUT
(...)
Anything from 1 to 3 glasses of this a day, with or after meals,
REPLACES ANY TRANQUILIZER. It does not produce the drugged
effects of tranquilizers (which are quite deadly).
SCIENTOLOGY, CURRENT STATE OF THE SUBJECT AND
MATERIALS
DRUGS, ASPIRIN AND TRANQUILIZERS
ASSIST SUMMARY
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