The Skeptic Tank's staff receives a great deal of mail about a (sometimes bewildering) variety of subjects. A great many people are looking for news reports and detailed information about cults or cult leaders in their area. Some have family members who have fallen into a cult and are naturally concerned about their health and safety (both financially and physically.)

Most of the inbound mail is either in defense of various cults (or their leaders) or in defense of an intolerant hatred or bigotry. Since nearly 99% of this type of inbound mail is impossible to pick through to extract any reason or meaning, they are discarded out-of-hand.

The remaining lucky few <smile> which are responded to or make it to a web page here at The Skeptic Tank represents either the best or exhibit some trait I like to expose for its own sake.

From: "Fredric L. Rice" <frice@raids.org>
To: marmi@imola.queen.it
Date: Sun Mar 22 14:02:46 1998
Subject: Jimmy Swaggart

Greetings!

> I enjoyed reading your material on Swaggart on the Internet.

Thanks. It was fun putting together and I've got an update which will be posted this evening -- along with a text file from Australia which discusses cult dynamics which ties into the Jimmy Swaggart phenomena closely. (That's at cultdyn.htm.)

m> My university thesis (Oriental Languages, Venice) dealt largely
m> with an analysis of the (very different) apocalyptical language
m> used by Muslim, Jewish and Evangelical fundamentalists, and a
m> video of Swaggart preaching was of enormous help (and amusement).

Ah. What fun. And have you ever taken a look at Scientologists and the way they contruct words and redefine words? That's another very interesting cult.

The text file I mention about -- CultDyn.HTM -- also covers the use of words that have been redefined.

m> However your Internet page is part of a debate which has apparently
m> been going on for some time. What do you mean by Swaggart being
m> caught *again*? I only know of his mission-to-the-fallen-ladies of
m> about eight years ago. I know he made a comeback after that, but
m> is he still around, and where could I find more about him?

He's been in the news a lot since he had his "ministry" investigated for tax fraud and for blatant fraud. Of late he was photographed by a newspaper reporter outside of a hotel with a prostitute.

This is something I don't consider in the least a crime or a punishable offence. It's just that the clown pretends to adhear to some higher standard of morality when in fact he doesn't.

Of even more note is the large number of cult followers who ignore entirely all of the newspaper articles, videotapes, and photographs of their leader getting caught.

Oh: Actually the very last time he was undeniably caught was when a police officer pulled him over for suspicion of drunk driving. He was caught trying to stuff pornographic magazines under his car's seat. There was another prostitute in the passenger seat of his car.

Ironically enough, in addition to Internet searches on "jimmy and swaggart," the cult followers are also very good sources of information on the activities of their leader. The very act of attempting to "debunk" the tax evasions, fraud, and sexual behaviors of their cult leaders, works to inadvertantly inform everyone of what their leaders have been caught doing.

For instance, when one asks a "fishing expidition" question (something like, "What about the tax fraud and the oppressive wealth your leader has accumulated?") in the act of trying to defend their leaders, they inadvertantly cover what it is their leaders have been caught doing.

gs>> Dear Fred:
gs>>
gs>> Just one more thing... I am sorry that you have been
gs>> wounded by Christians acting in an un-Christlike way.

How strange. The history of a club is what dictates what a club stands for. The evil of Christianity past and present described quite unambiguously what Christianity stands for.

The only way someone can be "un-Christian" is to not be a Christian.

gs> Our materialistic consumption-centered society has warped much of
gs> the church into a what's in it for me faux-Christianity. It is also
gs> true that most Christians still haven't been delivered from
gs> legalistic, religious, judgmental and condemning spirits. Their
gs> pride is from Satan (pride is why he fell) and they haven't yet
gs> really yielded themselves to Christ (it is not an easy thing to
gs> do!). No man truly full of Christ would kill anyone, but God will
gs> judge. The only group on earth that Jesus had harsh words for
gs> were the religious hypocrites.

Freakish rant. Do you have any evidence for any of your gods references above? I'm merely curious whether you're the type of cultist who thinks there's evidence for his creations or whether you're the type that's at least honest enough to be able to admit to himself that he has no evidence.

Think carefully about your answer, now.

gs> The bottom line is that Jesus Christ, fully God, came down to
gs> earth and lived as a man to set an example for us.

Just like Lord Krishna 300 years before "Jesus" was created. And just like Mithra some 600 years before the "Jesus" god was created.

gs> He suffered for you as much as for me.

How freakish. Setting aside the fact that your intellectual and moral superiors are in no way connected with nor concerned with your Alpha Male delusions, Lord Krishna and Mithra did the same -- as did many other gods and goddesses before your "Jesus" construct was created.

gs> He is alive within us and is our LORD,
gs> just as much as we will let Him be.

How freakish. I can't help but be reminded of the "Alien" movies. One of your gods was a "face hugger," huh? And planet some eggs inside of you. I do hope that when that thing pops, it's not at the dinner table. <smile>

gs> Oh, if you only knew Him personally!

Oh, if only you knew Peter Pan personally!

gs> He who the Son makes free is free indeed.

And yet belief in your fictional constructs enslaves your mind. Make a guess as to which the intelligent among us will choose: thinking over willful enslavement of the mind.

>> Wishing you only the best, now and forever!

But then occult juju magic never works upon the educated. You may wish at me and think at me all you like and yet I can assure you that nothing you think at me can alter the unavoidable fact that only the removal of a fairly large section of my brain is going to make me start believing delusional fantasies.

j> Boy!! "you can't buy this type of publicity!" as I heard
j> someone once say. I just visited your web site to see if my plan
j> went well and what da ya know!! just as I had hoped you would, you
j> added my first letter to your web site!

One of the neat things we have a lot of here at The Skeptic Tank are theists actually willing to donate materials to us for continued exposure. It just seems as though cultists are incapable of stopping themselves.

After all, like you, so many of them return to The Skeptic Tank again and again as they search for the courage they need to escape their cult.

Most of the more unfortunate cultists never seem to twigg to the fact that their illiterate, disjointed, freakishly irrational rants help to show what it means to be a Christian today.

j> BUT WAIT!!...CAN IT BE!!...NO!..I can't be THIS lucky!, ....YES!
j> you added every single letter I have sent you. AND AT NO COST TO
j> ME!. This is exactly what I wanted you to do AND MORE. I new
j> you could not resist this (as all other web sites like yours) .

<chuckle> Didn't you know that exposing the abuses of the Christian clergy is one of the primary articles of The Skeptic Tank's charter? Of course your insane rants would get appended to the "defending the cult" series.

It's not every cultist who is willing to defend Jimmy Swaggart after his large number of, shall we say, "sexual indiscretions?" As a lead-in into the "cult dynamics" web page, your messages and those of your fellow culists is a god-send.

j> You see my friend, it does not matter
j> that you rip me and my beliefs up.

In fact there's been no need to. You have provided all of the material needed all on your own without my having to solicit any from you.

j> What matters is that I get the message across.

Oh yes, you certainly underscore quite effectively what it means to be a Christian in today's enlightened world. That's for sure. <smile>

j> You see, just as Jesus said,

Since there are no known writings of any "Jesus," no one know what it might have said and what it might not have said. If you have any writings of this "Jesus" of yours, might I suggest that you let the rest of the world know where these writings are that you've been keeping so selfishly to yourself?

j> "I came not for the saved but for the sinners",

And since only Christian cultists are capable of "sinning," the leave your "Jesus" god to only the Christian. Except that you're still left with that fatal little flaw in your paper idol; you know, the one where the "savior messiah" named Immanuel didn't put in an appearance as foretold and the "Jesus" myth was adopted instead?

j> I wanted my responses to be posted for those who are
j> just like you, to see and read them.

Rest assured that the educated around the world are already quite aware of what religion does to some people.

j> I love planting seeds because you know what's good about (thanks
j> to you) planting a whole bunch of seeds (all my letters to you).

How strange. That's illiterate so the intended meaning is ambiguous yet it would appear as though you're stating that you "love" making your intellectual and moral superiors laugh. I would have expected you to be rather resentful of that fact.

j> It's the fact that even though some seeds may fall
j> by the way side, others catch root and grow.

Only where's there's plenty of fertalizer -- such as in the minds of theists.

The better educated, however, recognize the unfortunate behavioral patterns exhibited by those who have been abused by religious occultism. Doubtless some of us feel a bit of pity for the sheep who really had no choice in the matter. Perhaps some of us feel some anger at the cult masters who do this kind of stuff to poor unfortunates like you.

j> The Lord works in mysterious ways!

That would be Lord Krishna, huh? The Savior Messiah which came to Earth to save humanity well over 300 years before the "Jesus" construct was contrived, right?

j> THANKS FOR THE FREE PUBLICITY MY FRIEND (saving me a whole
j> stack of money trying to make my own web page) <laughs>
j> "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!"

Pretty freakish. Any time you wish to donate further materials to The Skeptic Tank, please feel free to submit them as you certainly fit the desired profile.

j> PSALM 60:12

And when lies and freakish occult ranting doesn't work, try mindlessly refering to your master's paper idol. That'll do the trick. Sure it will.

In response to your e-mail:

I mentioned my displeasement with your dedicating a web page to bringing Swaggart down, you replied that " one has to wonder whether [I] would also think that everyone [I] hear about in the news is being brought down... " Than you proceeded in calling my thought "...idiotic and childish..." Also in your letter, you mentioned that :..it's far better to follow logic, reason, thought and science..." that " they never fail " than you went on to instilling your " moral superiority " on me by calling my statements "freakish rants" ( a pattern seen all throughout your website when one does not agree with you). It boggles my mind to think that one can misconstrue,so easily, my intent. No, I do not think that everyone I in the news is being brought down. Not everyone has a webpage dedicated to them.

Logic? Reason? Thought? Science? YOUR ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!!! We have to use them...That is how I base my belief in God... and those four factions are what makes my faith all the stronger! Instead of spending so much time on your webpage, try to spend some time on researching the things you don't understand. You probably believe in evolution and that has never been proven... remember, even though it's taught in our schools as fact, it is still a theory.... for every so-called proof of man's evolution, something comes up to state the contrary...and... a growing number of scientists believe that we have more evidence pointing to a Creator than to an evolution. I await your reply.

Note the attempt to drop the fact of evolution into this person's defense of the cult leader. Some cult leaders tell their followers that evolution doesn't happen some how and that some how it's "of" the "Satan" god.

This is done because some cult leaders find it useful to have followers believe that the fact of evolution disproves the existance of gods and/or goddesses. In fact it doesn't: Scientific facts don't remove the need for gods and goddesses. It makes them obsolete, of course, to explain some ignorance yet it does nothing to remove the need. - flr

l> In rsponse to your e-mail:
l> I mentioned my displeasement with your dedicating a web page to
l> bringing Swaggart down,

Hopefully you now realize the absurdity of such an idiotic claim. No one can "bring down" anyone. The only person who can bring cult masters "down" are the cult masters themselves.

Oh: And some times their followers.

l> you replied that " one has to wonder whether [I] would also
l> think that everyone [I] hear about in the news is being brought
l> down... " Than you proceeded in calling my thought "...
l> idiotic and childish..."

I recall my debunking of your occult rant quite clearly, dear... not to mention quite fondly.

Hopefully you'll not mind if I just skip the rest of your illiterate, occult ranting. I'm very busy working on the Jimmy Bakker, Jim Jones, Oral Roberts et al. series which will join your cult master in The Skeptic Tank's hall of fame.

>I find your reply confusing.

I don't doubt it. Since yhou elected not to quote any of it, however, I have no idea what you're talking about. For some strange reason you cultists want to hide dishonestly behind misdirection and deception so I'm not at all surprised that you didn't quote anything.

>Please respond using simple English so that your point and be understood.

It would have to be very simple for you to understand, huh?

>A "little Truth" can be dangerous.. don't you agree?

Truth is only dangerous to those who would wish to keep their followers ignorant of the truth. That's the only way to keep people like you on the hook, isn't it?

>Have you met "the man"?

Sammy David Jr.?

>Have you "heard" him preach?

Sammy was Jewish and I never heard that he had any services.

>Have you seen his "fruits of the Spirit"?

<laughing!> I'm not homosexual, dear, so no.

>Have you spoken to anyone in "authority"?

Willful slavery to men is a Christian ideal, not one subscribed to by the better educated.

tn> Have you "thought" about the harm that you are doing
tn> to Jimmy Swaggart, his family and to his ministry?

<laughing!> The sodomizing priest was caught fucking a prostitute a number of times in a hotel, silly. He was caught stuffing pornographic magazines under his seat with another hooker in the passenger seat of the car a cop was pulling over on suspicion of drunk driving.

Only a really pathetic self-deluded liar would continue to worship the man.

>I have asked myself these questions.

Take liuthium tablets to solve that problem.

>Would you like to discuss this further?

You're the lunatic who worships a known fraud and opened your yap about it.

Don't you have a comet or a flying saucer to catch?

>Respectfully,
>
>Dr. G. Towers
>Towers Newsletter

tn> I am sorry that you feel that The Swaggart Ministry is a cult.

My guess is you don't have a dictionary.

tn> Thank you for your clarification ib regard to your sources of
tn> information.

As opposed to buying into the fraud's lies, huh?

>Newspaper articles and online commentaries aren't your best source.

<rofl!> Let me guess: Swaggart's own snot-filled "confession" is, right?

tn> Again, I invite you to go to Baton Rouge abd "see".
tn> I traveled 1300 miles to "see" for myself.

But then you're a cultist and will buy any lie because you want to. The facts remain, however, that the fraud has been caught repeatedly being a Christian.

tn> Perhaps your agenda is not to search for the truth but to
tn> sensationalize

I'm sure your masters would want you to pretend so. It doesn't make the truth simply disappear, however.

tn> on the opinions of other uninformed representatives of the media.

<rofl!> Your master was caught fucking a prostitute in a hotel. Your hero was caught asking about fucking a seven-year-old girl and was caught wondering aloud how it would feel to slide his cock in and out of said seven-year-old.

tn> I would suggest that you contact the National Examiner...
tn> They have spent untold millions in an attempt o destroy people...

<rofl!> I would bet you believe whatever your masters program you to.

tn> While "bashing" Swaggart on their front cover they
tn> decided it was time again to "revive" the Eddie
tn> Fisher/Debbie Reynolds divorce 21 years ago. By the way... what
tn> are your literary credentials?

<smile> The fraud gets caught being a typical Christian liar and a fraud and here you are unfazed by the embarrassing truth of the fact.

Look at what that ugly death cult of yours has done to you.

If you need help escaping, check out:

. http://www.raids.org/walkaway.htm.

No one else needs to know.

lj>Please take this page off the net it does not serve any purpose

Okay. I'll remove it immediately.

fr> And have you ever taken a look at Scientologists and the
fr> way they contruct words and redefine words? That's another
fr> very interesting cult.

It certainly is!!!! I see we do share some interests.

The interesting thing that came out of my research was the entirely different way Muslim and Evangelical fundamentalist mobilize their following.

Just to give you an idea: Muslims have to show that Palestine was a flourishing land before the Zionists came; US fundies have to show its a flourishing land now, thanks to the Zionists.

So an anonymous Muslim author simply quotes 11th century Arab travellers to Palestine: the Authority of the Ancients is something unquestionable. No statistics, no information say from the 19th century, no special emotions.

To show that the Holy Land is now flourishing, the US evangelical has a picture of himself, his wife and his little daughter (all with their first names) smiling in front of a picture of a wheat field. Then he tells the heart-rending story of some immigrant family (all first names) who came into this "desert" and made it "bloom". Rev 1:24 or whatever it is follows next.

In other words, there is a powerful exploitation of very simple mom-and-dad emotions first, which are the real "proof" (it "feels good") of the Biblical point made afterwards.

Remember Harold Bloom wrote that the American religion gives you what Freud said we could never have: a better childhood. This gives US fundies an extra boost - they have that feeling of being "good kids", unlike say Muslims, Communists or right wing extremists in other parts of the world.

This "being good guys", with the mom, the dad, the kids and Jesus gives an even better justification to totalism and violence than any "adult" ideology: even when the napalmed bodies are lying around, you are still as innocent as when you were three.

This also makes US evangelists a lot more like their New Age cousins than they would like people to think: they are both offering you a "better childhood", the opportunity of "being born again / rebirthing".

Another interesting thing that came out was the dynamic nature of American racism: the politically correct folk still believe that its WASPs against everybody else, but reading evangelicals through the centuries, you can see that the "Israelites" and the "Canaanites" change constantly: first it is "US" protestants versus the Catholics and the Jews; then its us whites versus the blacks; today it is us whites, Jews and - to some extent - blacks versus the Arabs.

It does not really matter whom you hate as long as you hate somebody. And there is a fascinating body of evangelical literature on the Middle East which is pure racism: the Palestinians are the descendants of incestuous Edom, of Amalek who must be exterminated, of the Nephilim devils, of Cam who sniggered when he say his daddy Noah naked... Quite fascinating reading.

There is a hilarious book by a certain Ramon Bennett, "Philistine: the Great Deception" which uses all the old hatred-and-conspiracy stuff of the past, but earned the preacher Israeli citizenship.

>Perversely enjoyable.

Good luck,

Miguel Martinez

fr> I can't imagine which "Christ" you're talking about.

ig> Evidently not.

Yes, since there's so many to pick and choose from. Since you didn't mention which particular Christ you were talking about, I'll make the assumption you're talking about Lord Krishna, okay?

ig> I will pray for you.

Do you think that occult voodoo threats actually work upon the educated? I can assure you that you may think your anger and resentment at me all you wish and I will remain, as always, unaffected.

Perhaps if you tried various gods and goddesses that would help. Might I suggest Star Goat?

ig> The truth is in your mind and heart, not just in your mind.

Interesting. The truth is that the heart is an organ which pumps blood. I don't know why you decided to change topics yet if you wanted to talk about biology, that's okay by me. We'll talk about your appendix. }:-}

Ken Young:
Let's just say there is a famous person, either a well known minister, or a politician, and he gets involved in a group that is horrible. He wants to get out, but it may not be so easy. So could the hypothetical famous person invent a scandal about himself, so that the hypothetical group would be forced to have nothing to do with him?