The Skeptic Tank's staff receives a great deal of mail about a (sometimes
bewildering) variety of subjects. A great many people are looking for news
reports and detailed information about cults or cult leaders in their area.
Some have family members who have fallen into a cult and are naturally
concerned about their health and safety (both financially and physically.)
Most of the inbound mail is either in defense of various cults (or their
leaders) or in defense of an intolerant hatred or bigotry. Since nearly
99% of this type of inbound mail is impossible to pick through to extract
any reason or meaning, they are discarded out-of-hand.
The remaining lucky few <smile> which are responded to or make it to
a web page here at The Skeptic Tank represents either the best or exhibit
some trait I like to expose for its own sake.
Greetings!
> I enjoyed reading your material on Swaggart on the Internet.
Thanks. It was fun putting together and I've got an update which will be
posted this evening -- along with a text file from Australia which discusses
cult dynamics which ties into the Jimmy Swaggart phenomena closely. (That's
at cultdyn.htm.)
Ah. What fun. And have you ever taken a look at Scientologists and the
way they contruct words and redefine words? That's another very interesting
cult.
The text file I mention about -- CultDyn.HTM -- also covers the use of words
that have been redefined.
He's been in the news a lot since he had his "ministry"
investigated for tax fraud and for blatant fraud. Of late he was
photographed by a newspaper reporter outside of a hotel with a prostitute.
This is something I don't consider in the least a crime or a punishable
offence. It's just that the clown pretends to adhear to some higher
standard of morality when in fact he doesn't.
Of even more note is the large number of cult followers who ignore
entirely all of the newspaper articles, videotapes, and photographs of
their leader getting caught.
Oh: Actually the very last time he was undeniably caught was when a police
officer pulled him over for suspicion of drunk driving. He was caught trying
to stuff pornographic magazines under his car's seat. There was another
prostitute in the passenger seat of his car.
Ironically enough, in addition to Internet searches on "jimmy and
swaggart," the cult followers are also very good sources of information
on the activities of their leader. The very act of attempting to
"debunk" the tax evasions, fraud, and sexual behaviors of their
cult leaders, works to inadvertantly inform everyone of what their leaders
have been caught doing.
For instance, when one asks a "fishing expidition" question
(something like, "What about the tax fraud and the oppressive wealth
your leader has accumulated?") in the act of trying to defend their
leaders, they inadvertantly cover what it is their leaders have been caught
doing.
How strange. The history of a club is what dictates what a club stands
for. The evil of Christianity past and present described quite unambiguously
what Christianity stands for.
The only way someone can be "un-Christian" is to not be a
Christian.
Freakish rant. Do you have any evidence for any of your gods references
above? I'm merely curious whether you're the type of cultist who thinks
there's evidence for his creations or whether you're the type that's at
least honest enough to be able to admit to himself that he has no evidence.
Think carefully about your answer, now.
Just like Lord Krishna 300 years before "Jesus" was created.
And just like Mithra some 600 years before the "Jesus" god was
created.
gs> He suffered for you as much as for me.
How freakish. Setting aside the fact that your intellectual and moral
superiors are in no way connected with nor concerned with your Alpha Male
delusions, Lord Krishna and Mithra did the same -- as did many other gods
and goddesses before your "Jesus" construct was created.
How freakish. I can't help but be reminded of the "Alien" movies.
One of your gods was a "face hugger," huh? And planet some eggs
inside of you. I do hope that when that thing pops, it's not at the dinner
table. <smile>
gs> Oh, if you only knew Him personally!
Oh, if only you knew Peter Pan personally!
gs> He who the Son makes free is free indeed.
And yet belief in your fictional constructs enslaves your mind. Make a
guess as to which the intelligent among us will choose: thinking
over willful enslavement of the mind.
>> Wishing you only the best, now and forever!
But then occult juju magic never works upon the educated. You may wish
at me and think at me all you like and yet I can assure you that nothing
you think at me can alter the unavoidable fact that only the removal of
a fairly large section of my brain is going to make me start believing
delusional fantasies.
One of the neat things we have a lot of here at The Skeptic Tank are theists
actually willing to donate materials to us for continued exposure. It just
seems as though cultists are incapable of stopping themselves.
After all, like you, so many of them return to The Skeptic Tank again and
again as they search for the courage they need to escape their cult.
Most of the more unfortunate cultists never seem to twigg to the fact that
their illiterate, disjointed, freakishly irrational rants help to show what
it means to be a Christian today.
<chuckle> Didn't you know that exposing the abuses of the Christian
clergy is one of the primary articles of The Skeptic Tank's charter? Of
course your insane rants would get appended to the "defending
the cult" series.
It's not every cultist who is willing to defend Jimmy Swaggart after his
large number of, shall we say, "sexual indiscretions?" As a
lead-in into the "cult dynamics" web page, your messages and
those of your fellow culists is a god-send.
In fact there's been no need to. You have provided all of the material
needed all on your own without my having to solicit any from you.
j> What matters is that I get the message across.
Oh yes, you certainly underscore quite effectively what it means to be a
Christian in today's enlightened world. That's for sure. <smile>
j> You see, just as Jesus said,
Since there are no known writings of any "Jesus," no one know
what it might have said and what it might not have said. If you have any
writings of this "Jesus" of yours, might I suggest that you let
the rest of the world know where these writings are that you've been
keeping so selfishly to yourself?
j> "I came not for the saved but for the sinners",
And since only Christian cultists are capable of "sinning," the
leave your "Jesus" god to only the Christian. Except that you're
still left with that fatal little flaw in your paper idol; you know, the
one where the "savior messiah" named Immanuel didn't put in an
appearance as foretold and the "Jesus" myth was adopted instead?
Rest assured that the educated around the world are already quite aware of
what religion does to some people.
How strange. That's illiterate so the intended meaning is ambiguous yet it
would appear as though you're stating that you "love" making your
intellectual and moral superiors laugh. I would have expected you to be
rather resentful of that fact.
Only where's there's plenty of fertalizer -- such as in the minds of
theists.
The better educated, however, recognize the unfortunate behavioral patterns
exhibited by those who have been abused by religious occultism. Doubtless
some of us feel a bit of pity for the sheep who really had no choice in the
matter. Perhaps some of us feel some anger at the cult masters who do this
kind of stuff to poor unfortunates like you.
j> The Lord works in mysterious ways!
That would be Lord Krishna, huh? The Savior Messiah which came to Earth to
save humanity well over 300 years before the "Jesus" construct
was contrived, right?
Pretty freakish. Any time you wish to donate further materials to The
Skeptic Tank, please feel free to submit them as you certainly fit the
desired profile.
j> PSALM 60:12
And when lies and freakish occult ranting doesn't work, try mindlessly
refering to your master's paper idol. That'll do the trick. Sure it will.
In response to your e-mail:
I mentioned my displeasement with your dedicating a web page to bringing
Swaggart down, you replied that " one has to wonder whether [I] would
also think that everyone [I] hear about in the news is being brought down...
" Than you proceeded in calling my thought "...idiotic and
childish..." Also in your letter, you mentioned that :..it's far
better to follow logic, reason, thought and science..." that "
they never fail " than you went on to instilling your " moral
superiority " on me by calling my statements "freakish rants"
( a pattern seen all throughout your website when one does not agree with
you). It boggles my mind to think that one can misconstrue,so easily, my
intent. No, I do not think that everyone I in the news is being brought
down. Not everyone has a webpage dedicated to them.
Logic? Reason? Thought? Science? YOUR ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!!! We have to use
them...That is how I base my belief in God... and those four factions are
what makes my faith all the stronger! Instead of spending so much time on
your webpage, try to spend some time on researching the things you don't
understand. You probably believe in evolution and that has never been
proven... remember, even though it's taught in our schools as fact, it is
still a theory.... for every so-called proof of man's evolution, something
comes up to state the contrary...and... a growing number of scientists
believe that we have more evidence pointing to a Creator than to an
evolution. I await your reply.
This is done because some cult leaders find it useful to have followers
believe that the fact of evolution disproves the existance of gods and/or
goddesses. In fact it doesn't: Scientific facts don't remove the need
for gods and goddesses. It makes them obsolete, of course, to explain
some ignorance yet it does nothing to remove the need. - flr
Hopefully you now realize the absurdity of such an idiotic claim. No one
can "bring down" anyone. The only person who can bring cult
masters "down" are the cult masters themselves.
Oh: And some times their followers.
I recall my debunking of your occult rant quite clearly, dear... not to
mention quite fondly.
Hopefully you'll not mind if I just skip the rest of your illiterate, occult
ranting. I'm very busy working on the Jimmy Bakker, Jim Jones, Oral Roberts
et al. series which will join your cult master in The Skeptic Tank's hall of
fame.
>I find your reply confusing.
I don't doubt it. Since yhou elected not to quote any of it, however,
I have no idea what you're talking about. For some strange reason you
cultists want to hide dishonestly behind misdirection and deception so
I'm not at all surprised that you didn't quote anything.
>Please respond using simple English so that your point and be understood.
It would have to be very simple for you to understand, huh?
>A "little Truth" can be dangerous.. don't you agree?
Truth is only dangerous to those who would wish to keep their followers
ignorant of the truth. That's the only way to keep people like you on the
hook, isn't it?
>Have you met "the man"?
Sammy David Jr.?
>Have you "heard" him preach?
Sammy was Jewish and I never heard that he had any services.
>Have you seen his "fruits of the Spirit"?
<laughing!> I'm not homosexual, dear, so no.
>Have you spoken to anyone in "authority"?
Willful slavery to men is a Christian ideal, not one subscribed to by the
better educated.
<laughing!> The sodomizing priest was caught fucking a prostitute
a number of times in a hotel, silly. He was caught stuffing pornographic
magazines under his seat with another hooker in the passenger seat of the
car a cop was pulling over on suspicion of drunk driving.
Only a really pathetic self-deluded liar would continue to worship the man.
>I have asked myself these questions.
Take liuthium tablets to solve that problem.
>Would you like to discuss this further?
You're the lunatic who worships a known fraud and opened your yap about it.
Don't you have a comet or a flying saucer to catch?
tn> I am sorry that you feel that The Swaggart Ministry is a cult.
My guess is you don't have a dictionary.
As opposed to buying into the fraud's lies, huh?
>Newspaper articles and online commentaries aren't your best source.
<rofl!> Let me guess: Swaggart's own snot-filled
"confession" is, right?
But then you're a cultist and will buy any lie because you want to. The
facts remain, however, that the fraud has been caught repeatedly being a
Christian.
I'm sure your masters would want you to pretend so. It doesn't make the
truth simply disappear, however.
tn> on the opinions of other uninformed representatives of the media.
<rofl!> Your master was caught fucking a prostitute in a
hotel. Your hero was caught asking about fucking a seven-year-old girl
and was caught wondering aloud how it would feel to slide his cock in
and out of said seven-year-old.
<rofl!> I would bet you believe whatever your masters program you to.
<smile> The fraud gets caught being a typical Christian liar and
a fraud and here you are unfazed by the embarrassing truth of the fact.
Look at what that ugly death cult of yours has done to you.
If you need help escaping, check out:
.
http://www.raids.org/walkaway.htm.
No one else needs to know.
lj>Please take this page off the net it does not serve any purpose
Okay. I'll remove it immediately.
It certainly is!!!! I see we do share some interests.
The interesting thing that came out of my research was the entirely
different way Muslim and Evangelical fundamentalist mobilize their
following.
Just to give you an idea: Muslims have to show that Palestine was a
flourishing land before the Zionists came; US fundies have to show its a
flourishing land now, thanks to the Zionists.
So an anonymous Muslim author simply quotes 11th century Arab travellers to
Palestine: the Authority of the Ancients is something unquestionable. No
statistics, no information say from the 19th century, no special emotions.
To show that the Holy Land is now flourishing, the US evangelical has a
picture of himself, his wife and his little daughter (all with their first
names) smiling in front of a picture of a wheat field. Then he tells the
heart-rending story of some immigrant family (all first names) who came into
this "desert" and made it "bloom". Rev 1:24 or whatever
it is follows next.
In other words, there is a powerful exploitation of very simple mom-and-dad
emotions first, which are the real "proof" (it "feels
good") of the Biblical point made afterwards.
Remember Harold Bloom wrote that the American religion gives you what Freud
said we could never have: a better childhood. This gives US fundies an
extra boost - they have that feeling of being "good kids", unlike
say Muslims, Communists or right wing extremists in other parts of the world.
This "being good guys", with the mom, the dad, the kids and Jesus
gives an even better justification to totalism and violence than any
"adult" ideology: even when the napalmed bodies are lying around,
you are still as innocent as when you were three.
This also makes US evangelists a lot more like their New Age cousins than
they would like people to think: they are both offering you a "better
childhood", the opportunity of "being born again / rebirthing".
Another interesting thing that came out was the dynamic nature of American
racism: the politically correct folk still believe that its WASPs against
everybody else, but reading evangelicals through the centuries, you can see
that the "Israelites" and the "Canaanites" change
constantly: first it is "US" protestants versus the Catholics and
the Jews; then its us whites versus the blacks; today it is us whites, Jews
and - to some extent - blacks versus the Arabs.
It does not really matter whom you hate as long as you hate somebody. And
there is a fascinating body of evangelical literature on the Middle East
which is pure racism: the Palestinians are the descendants of incestuous
Edom, of Amalek who must be exterminated, of the Nephilim devils, of Cam
who sniggered when he say his daddy Noah naked... Quite fascinating reading.
There is a hilarious book by a certain Ramon Bennett, "Philistine: the
Great Deception" which uses all the old hatred-and-conspiracy stuff
of the past, but earned the preacher Israeli citizenship.
>Perversely enjoyable.
Good luck,
Miguel Martinez
fr> I can't imagine which "Christ" you're talking about.
ig> Evidently not.
Yes, since there's so many to pick and choose from. Since you didn't
mention which particular Christ you were talking about, I'll make the
assumption you're talking about Lord Krishna, okay?
ig> I will pray for you.
Do you think that occult voodoo threats actually work upon the educated?
I can assure you that you may think your anger and resentment at me all
you wish and I will remain, as always, unaffected.
Perhaps if you tried various gods and goddesses that would help. Might
I suggest Star Goat?
ig> The truth is in your mind and heart, not just in your mind.
Interesting. The truth is that the heart is an organ which pumps blood.
I don't know why you decided to change topics yet if you wanted to talk
about biology, that's okay by me. We'll talk about your appendix. }:-}
Ken Young:
Return to The Skeptic Tank's main Index page.
From: "Fredric L. Rice" <frice@raids.org>
To: marmi@imola.queen.it
Date: Sun Mar 22 14:02:46 1998
Subject: Jimmy Swaggart
m> My university thesis (Oriental Languages, Venice) dealt largely
m> with an analysis of the (very different) apocalyptical language
m> used by Muslim, Jewish and Evangelical fundamentalists, and a
m> video of Swaggart preaching was of enormous help (and amusement).
m> However your Internet page is part of a debate which has apparently
m> been going on for some time. What do you mean by Swaggart being
m> caught *again*? I only know of his mission-to-the-fallen-ladies of
m> about eight years ago. I know he made a comeback after that, but
m> is he still around, and where could I find more about him?
From: "Fredric L. Rice" <frice@raids.org>
To: gshore@cweathernet.com
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 15:04:15 -0800
Subject: trying again
gs>> Dear Fred:
gs>>
gs>> Just one more thing... I am sorry that you have been
gs>> wounded by Christians acting in an un-Christlike way.
gs> Our materialistic consumption-centered society has warped much of
gs> the church into a what's in it for me faux-Christianity. It is also
gs> true that most Christians still haven't been delivered from
gs> legalistic, religious, judgmental and condemning spirits. Their
gs> pride is from Satan (pride is why he fell) and they haven't yet
gs> really yielded themselves to Christ (it is not an easy thing to
gs> do!). No man truly full of Christ would kill anyone, but God will
gs> judge. The only group on earth that Jesus had harsh words for
gs> were the religious hypocrites.
gs> The bottom line is that Jesus Christ, fully God, came down to
gs> earth and lived as a man to set an example for us.
gs> He is alive within us and is our LORD,
gs> just as much as we will let Him be.
From: "Fredric L. Rice" <frice@raids.org>
To: jors@webtv.net
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 20:21:15 -0800
Subject: Victory!!!!!
j> Boy!! "you can't buy this type of publicity!" as I heard
j> someone once say. I just visited your web site to see if my plan
j> went well and what da ya know!! just as I had hoped you would, you
j> added my first letter to your web site!
j> BUT WAIT!!...CAN IT BE!!...NO!..I can't be THIS lucky!, ....YES!
j> you added every single letter I have sent you. AND AT NO COST TO
j> ME!. This is exactly what I wanted you to do AND MORE. I new
j> you could not resist this (as all other web sites like yours) .
j> You see my friend, it does not matter
j> that you rip me and my beliefs up.
j> I wanted my responses to be posted for those who are
j> just like you, to see and read them.
j> I love planting seeds because you know what's good about (thanks
j> to you) planting a whole bunch of seeds (all my letters to you).
j> It's the fact that even though some seeds may fall
j> by the way side, others catch root and grow.
j> THANKS FOR THE FREE PUBLICITY MY FRIEND (saving me a whole
j> stack of money trying to make my own web page) <laughs>
j> "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!"
From: Lotv <Lotv@aol.com>
To: frice@raids.org
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 11:43:57 EST
Subject: In response to your views on Jimmy Swaggart.....
Note the attempt to drop the fact of evolution into this person's defense
of the cult leader. Some cult leaders tell their followers that evolution
doesn't happen some how and that some how it's "of" the
"Satan" god.
From: "Fredric L. Rice" <frice@raids.org>
To: Lotv <Lotv@aol.com>
Date: Fri Mar 27 15:12:57 1998
Subject: In response to your views on Jimmy Swaggart.....
l> In rsponse to your e-mail:
l> I mentioned my displeasement with your dedicating a web page to
l> bringing Swaggart down,
l> you replied that " one has to wonder whether [I] would also
l> think that everyone [I] hear about in the news is being brought
l> down... " Than you proceeded in calling my thought "...
l> idiotic and childish..."
From: "Fredric L. Rice" <frice@raids.org>
To: TowersNews <TowersNews@aol.com>
Date: Sun Jan 04 19:55:02 1998
Subject: Jimmy Swaggart
tn> Have you "thought" about the harm that you are doing
tn> to Jimmy Swaggart, his family and to his ministry?
>Respectfully,
>
>Dr. G. Towers
>Towers Newsletter
From: "Fredric L. Rice" <frice@raids.org>
To: TowersNews <TowersNews@aol.com>
Date: Sun Jan 04 20:00:25 1998
Subject: Jimmy Swaggart
tn> Thank you for your clarification ib regard to your sources of
tn> information.
tn> Again, I invite you to go to Baton Rouge abd "see".
tn> I traveled 1300 miles to "see" for myself.
tn> Perhaps your agenda is not to search for the truth but to
tn> sensationalize
tn> I would suggest that you contact the National Examiner...
tn> They have spent untold millions in an attempt o destroy people...
tn> While "bashing" Swaggart on their front cover they
tn> decided it was time again to "revive" the Eddie
tn> Fisher/Debbie Reynolds divorce 21 years ago. By the way... what
tn> are your literary credentials?
From: "Fredric L. Rice" <frice@raids.org>
To: ljensen@bellsouth.net
Date: Sat Nov 22 07:20:20 1997
Subject: Jimmy Swaggart
From: marmi@imola.queen.it
To: "Fredric L. Rice" <frice@raids.org>
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 11:10:16 +0100
Subject: Jimmy Swaggart
fr> And have you ever taken a look at Scientologists and the
fr> way they contruct words and redefine words? That's another
fr> very interesting cult.
From: "Fredric L. Rice" <frice@raids.org>
To: Ignacio Gonzalez <igonzale@stmarys-ca.edu>
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 07:48:56 -0800
Subject: Life
Let's just say there is a famous person, either a well known minister,
or a politician, and he gets involved in a group that is horrible. He
wants to get out, but it may not be so easy. So could the hypothetical
famous person invent a scandal about himself, so that the hypothetical
group would be forced to have nothing to do with him?
The views and opinions stated within this web page are those of the
author or authors which wrote them and may not reflect the views and
opinions of the ISP or account user which hosts the web page.
Cult Dynamics: cultdyn.htm
/a>
E-Mail Fredric L. Rice / The Skeptic Tank